Ultra Low Latency Mode, how it work?

Hello GD,

I’m a new buyer of a SimuCube Pro (coming from SC1) and I do like it ! But I want to understand some effect more precisely :pray:

I saw in this video that Neils Heusinkveld (1mn50) talks about the “Ultra Low lantency” and he seems to be saying that to pay attention with this setting.
This effect appeared to anticipate a latency but if there haven’t one, it anticapte something that is not there and it create a wrong behaviour ?

Please, how it works exacly ?
When the game send a command to the motor (torque like for exemple 25, just a random number), the software (TD) send more to compensate the latency (for exemple 30 instead of 25) ?

Am I correct ?

Thank you in advance to any one who may be able to answer me.
Cheers,

Denis.

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It tries to compensate for especially those titles that have low update rate for FFB processing. Large values can make the feedback loop also unstable in the opposite way. For iRacing, value like 15 is almost perfect.

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Why all sims default profiles, including high FFB update rate, have it enabled then?
It certainly does some interesting, not always desired things.

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Ok thanks Mika ! :+1: :slightly_smiling_face:
But just to be clear, the effect adds more torque to do that ?

I tried it 15%, 10% and off in iR and find better in off mode…

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I just turn it off by default for all ny games. Running: games at 120 or 144 fps + monitors at 120 or 144 Hz + extremely low overall input lag monitors + pre-rendered frames @ 1 or slightly less, already means my wheel movements and FFB have literally no perceived lag no matter how hard I try to find it. Then combine that with DD wheels’ extreme power, acceleration, velocity, and overal fidelity.

I guess “low latency mode” (ie. “FFB prediction effect” from the sounds of it) is advised to be run with iRacing due to iR’s relatively low 60 Hz FFB update rate. I tried iR with LLM set to off - semed fine to me but I bet GD know what they’re doing.

Is there a reason why LLM is enabled on other games’ default profiles? Is it a formula you guys use to get LLM based on the particular game’s FFB update rate? Eg. a game’s FFB update rate is 200 Hz therefore recommended LLM = 1 / 200 = 0.005 = 5 ms = LLM set to 5?

Default TBW is also 2200, why if even manual calls for Unlimited for best details?
It’s nice we have some default profiles, thanks GD for putting them together, but settings in some are far from optimal for specific sims.
Unfortunatelly in specific sims threads they are also all over place, way to many with very few making sense.

Torque Bandwidth Limit is something that we will remove. This is because if user is using any slew rate filtering and reconstruction filtering, there is nothing in torque above a certain frequency anyway, making this filter difficult to use or to describe. We maybe just remove the setting and set it at 2200 Hz behind the scenes.

And another step backward. Why do you keep doing this to us?
It’s already removed from Simplified UI, let people who doesn’t bother use that one and leave control to others in Advanced section, why dumb it down for everyone.
And there is huge difference in delivered details between 2200 Hz and Unlimited. Always was, starting OSW days.

You built great hardware solution and keep killing it with questionable software design decisions, adding stuff nobody asked for, like fancy CPU eating animations, and removing others, crucial for proper servo tuning pieces.

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An average Simucube user should not need to be an engineer to understand, or even see, any servo tuning parameters like Torque Bandwidth Limit. Not even in advanced mode. However your feedback is noted. Are you sure you were using a sensible Reconstruction filter when you test different TBW parameters?

Have you ever taken the time to read your posts back? You come across as a complete dick (putting it politely).

Okay so you’ve got some grievances with certain aspects of a fledgling product, there’s a polite way to put these across, see if you can find it.

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Average SC user, what is it?
I doubt there is a lot of casuals, most are experienced sim racers that know how to tune FFB or car setup, and good portion probably had experience with DD wheels already.

It’s great that you want to simplify software, coming from Granity and MMos, it is a breathe to setup already. But I suggest at least consider different audiences you need to cater for, as I said there are of course some new comers casuals with no greater experience than G27 and more advanced users, who like power of control.
What you are doing with Simplified UI looks like the right direction (if anyone actually using it) and can kill two birds with one stone.

As to the question on reconstruction filter, I only use 1, and even that is a bit on a soft side to my liking (but I am getting used to it already) unfortunately with it completely off, there is servo noise.
MMOs overall filter had finer control on softness level.

Agree 100% I am considering not downloading future updates, I am very happy now, the more control I have, the happier I am

@Mika Torque Bandwidth Limit is a MUST for me, I can mute all “noise” coming from the servo with it and it lets me tune the point of rotation where I want the wheel, and I can mitigate the rubber wip feeling using it.

Delete slew rate limit, delete static Force Reduction if you want, you can see that im not using any of them to get raw FFB from games:

Alfye20
You said :

Agree 100% I am considering not downloading future updates, I am very happy now, the more control I have, the happier I am"*

and after that :

Delete slew rate limit, delete static Force Reduction if you want, you can see that im not using any of them to get raw FFB from games:"

… hummm :thinking:
----It’s good to keep this option, sims have a lot of issue… This can help to repair.
Maybe in 20 years.

Mika and Granite,
The “simple mode” hasn’t been made for that ?
But I must agree, I keep 2200 hz for TBW because it seems enough, a lot.
But Why do you want to remove content ? Maybe it’s not bad to keep this on a other part of TD…I don’t know…

—**Mika, For Ultra low latency:upside_down_face: :
To compensate for this initial latency in Iracing for example, the "Ultra Low Latency" effect boosts the voltage at the start so that the current setpoint is reached faster ??

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The actual internal operating of this filter is something that we obviously won’t reveal.

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Yes, I understand :slight_smile: :upside_down_face:

Talking about deleting/blocking options, I don’t know who they listen to to make these changes, so I give my opinion too, in case it is taken into account.

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I understand that and I agree.
But remove those effect because they seems useless. I’m not agree

Normally we don’t need of those but…I could be useful in certain case I guess…

And maybe “slew rate” could be usefull with more than 720° for example for Pro and Ultimate
Above 300t/min, it’s a lot if the car is tending to go into a spin or is in oversteer.

When my “Pro” I’m around 360t/min (rfrwheeltest). On my SC1 216t/mn…
I don’t know if I am wrong…

I don’t think you understand the slew-rate and static force reduction filters if you say they are not needed for anything under 720 degrees rotation or the SC2 Sport in general. It doesn’t matter if you use 270 degrees or 1080 degrees, SC2 Sport or Pro or Ultimate, S-R and SFR filters can be very beneficial. Degrees of rotation and motor model has nothing to do with it.

Not only do you want S-R & SFR removed but you want to run 100% raw FFB with 0 filtering? That’s extremely unrealistic. Maybe in 50-100 years when we have perfectly accurate physical passive (or at least semi-passive) torque-based steering systems + accurate real-life vehicle steering system mass and inertia + perfectly modelled steering damping from the game’s physics + perfect game physics engines. Until then, running no filters and 100% raw FFB is the most unrealistic thing you can do.

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