True Drive filters, what they do and how they interact

Ok, Ím calling a Simucube 2 my own since a week now, and clearly setting the True Drive settings has a huge effect on how the FFB comes across etc.

And I would love to know what’s behind all these settings and I`m pretty sure the info is somewhere, but can I find it? No.

PLEASE, you guys have a Wiki, I as a customer should find EVERYTHING there. I imagine I`m not the only one who wants to know EXACTLY what the single values do, if possible with examples. Not everyone is in simracing since times when people had to build their own gear and had to program their own controller…

Where do I find this info on the True Drive parameters?

There is a User Guide on our www.simucu.be website.

Ok, in the Simucube User Guide, found it now… I think there should be a dedicated guide to this. It is FAR more complex than the few words lost about it in that guide.

What would be beneficial for the racers out there would be a guide how to tackle typical FFB issues and possible artificial signals by setting the filters or a combination thereof. Also talking about the typical “mistakes” and assumptions made with regards to certain settings, like overall strength.

Also a short paragraph on how the most common sims and games out there deliver FFB differently and what that means for the filter setup.

Something like that would set you guys clearly apart from other manufacturers and not leave all the putting pieces together, sometimes over years, to the users. There are people out there racing on the “wrong” settings for years, and sometimes they change a setting because they read something in a forum and BAAAM they are a second quicker just because the FFB feels better for them now. (Naturally, everyone feels FFB a little different and likes a different style, some soft, some downright brutal, but the PRINCIPLES of setting it up to each´s liking should be transparent and understandable…)

I´m pretty sure the community would be more than willing to help with a project like that.

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Yeah, we understand that the parameters are too difficult to set up. Thats why there is the Simple settings mode which is enabled by default, and which will show you more understandable meanings for settings. One can do 99% of the adjustment range that affects the FFB feel using that mode.

We are also thinking about going permanently to that mode only. There would be a huge negative feedback from the most active forum users, but >90% of the users would be happier…

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NOOOOO, that´s not what I mean!! I´d rather have more values to play with than less, because the benefit is out there, it just has to be found! To me, there are presently not enough values to be honest, I´d like to be able to fine tune this even more!

I just think there should be a clear understanding and guide as to what does what, not explained in a meager paragraph but with signals and graphs, and how filters interfere with each other or combine etc.

Seriously, if you were to take away the Advanced Mode, I wouldn´t update True Drive anymore and I know a lot of people wouldn´t and they also wouldn´t buy or recommend your product again. Bear in mind that your gear is very much for the enthusiasts out there! Its good and valid to have a simple mode for people who don´t want to play around and just go race. But rooted in OSW and a community of DIY-prone people, I think it would be a grave mistake to go “simple only”!

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Apple has shown that removing too complicated things and features makes users happier, even in enthusiast products.

But its only one of the directions we might be taking.

Another is to remove some unneeded filters and replace them with more meaningful ones.

Doing nothing, or just adding more stuff, will just make the problem worse, and in fact slow down development.

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For example, we’ve seen from the device telemetry, that some users have generally no idea and set the peaking and notch filter to random values and then return to ‘disabled’. Only around 5% of users use that filter (but we are yet to analyze what setting is most popular). More simple to replace this with on/off checkbox.

I´m not aboard with the Apple argument fully. Apple provided software to graphics and editing professionals that was so much ahead of the competition that there was no need for tweaking. But looking at the limited possibilities of tweaking the OS made the enthusiasts (!) jump ship: The IT guys went to Linux. Because there EVERYTHING was possible, you just had to gitgud.

A simple mode caters to the crowd that just wants to go race. And that´s fine as well, as I said before. But if you went fully simple I know there would be some small enterprise out there jumping at just that chance and bringing out a more customizable product.

Theres this meme about Apple: “Don´t be these guys!” LOL I think its harsh, but there´s some truth in it.

Naturally, if your software is so much ahead of everybody that even a simple mode is nothing short of breathtaking: By all means! Maybe it would be a good idea to have some enthusiasts and “just wanna go race” racers from the community as beta testers for new True Drive versions, could all be done under an NDA if you didn´t want things being discussed before launch. Pretty common practice in the industry, so maybe worth a look.

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Wonder how did you come up with that number? :thinking:

I believe nobody actually using simple mode, but yeah, simple poll on this board will probably give a better idea.

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We see from telemetry that not many are using it, but then they are just messing about in the advanced mode and asking for “optimum settings” in various forums. This is an issue

  1. it makes the system to appear too complicated to use, and people decide not to buy it.
  2. it makes the system too complicated to use.

Forum poll would be flawed, as only the most experienced fine-tuning enthusiasts who understand English are on this forum. Forums are very niche, almost nobody from the user base (as a whole) is on the forum, or in fact ANY forum.

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People were always treating FFB tuning as some sort of voodoo magic. Doesn’t matter the brand, be it Logitech, Thrustmaster, or Fanatec, there are always lengthy threads with “optimal” settings for each sim, covering usage of some exotic tuning tools like Wheelcheck, FFB Meters, LUT Generator, etc.
SC2/TD gives more tuning power with extra and more advanced filters to compensate for most sims FFB deficiencies.
This is a competitive advantage, not a flaw. People opting for SC2 because of that, not the other way around.
We all appreciate simplicity but not at the expense of lesser flexibility.
I believe the fact that very few people are actually using Simple mode speaks for itself.

And proper documentation with graphs, examples of typical usage can come a long way on making software easier to understand and use.

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@Mika
Hello,

please don’t remore the notch filter. i use it to find a balance for curbs, static force reduction, slew rate. overall torque. Please move it to another section like ( advanced filters ) but don’t remove it or modify the range settings.

Someone think that ffb is a strange thing but is really simple to setup… having some additional ( layer ) to ( fine tune if needed ) is what i want to have , again, if necessary for my personal feelings and taste.

People that need simple thing have to use the simple UI but please leave a backend for enthusiasts that love to have the maximum control and flexibility.

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Apologies if I’ve missed it but I can’t find any mention of the peaking and notch filter anywhere in the user guide.

I don’t think I’ve ever touched it and wouldn’t dare to, knowing that I don’t understand what its effects would be.

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It can be used to tune out a particular frequency of oscillation on the wheel. That frequency will depend on the simulator used, and the mass/inertia of wheel rim, etc…

so this is a complete side effect.

https://granitedevices.com/wiki/SimuCUBE_Firmware_User_Guide#Peaking_and_Notch_Filter
It’s a bit of a mystery to use, as you need to figure out frequency on which you want to apply the notch. Without proper telemetry in software (may be TD can add some monitor for that in the future), it’s a shot in the dark.

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@Mika @Andrew_WOT

Thanks for the replies. I’ll go and educate myself!

hello,

yes , i don’t know for what is designed/intended to use but i use it in to have a balance between other settings and works fine.

just like car setups.

no one actually want to sit their ass down and go through changes one by one (or in combo of each other), or read about what that stuff does.

always “now, now, now”

put me in the against simplicity camp. i didn’t pay 4 digits for a device to dumb shit down; hell, none of us paid 50 bucks for games to have setups made for us either.

devs using apple as an argument needs to look at the android side of things with the option of unlocking developer options. why does no one bring that one up.

stop catering to the dumbest denominators.

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I am the type of guy that doesnt like to fiddle with settings. If I were to try and set up FFB, i’d want the Apple approach - so the simple profile.

However, if there are experienced people that put in the time to make a good profile and share it, I want to try it! And if that profile is better than something you can do in a simple configuration, I will be very mad if you disable it! So please think long and hard before you remove it!

I also dont know how to do car stetups in iRacing and dont want to learn. But I want to be able to buy one from VRS instead of racing on the baseline!

Also note that I personally dont trust the simple profile. Settings seem too simple for such a complex thing as FFB.

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Seriously ! :scream: In “Simple Mode”, we don’t have not even “Inertia” et “friction”…

For me, it’s ridiculous !! If it was just removing the “Torque Bandwidth” (top cap it at 2200Hz) and remove “notch filter”, it will be a shame but you want to remove everything and just keep the “Simple Mode” !!?? :hot_face: I don’t understand, sorry.

People annoyed with these “advanced options” (Not very clever because it’s not a big deal) cannot simply switch into the “Simple Mode”, and just ignore them ?
Make no sense at all for me ? There is already what they want, the name: “SIMPLE MODE”.

I am an open-minded person, here are some ideas :

-1- Maybe, switch this “Simple Mode” by default but keep the advanced tab ?

-2- And for “Torque Bandwidth”, “notch filter”, etc… Maybe try something like this:



nb: Torque Bandwidth locked at 2200Hz.

When people ask something about these options (in my case for example), that is not to say that we wish to see a simplifcation. In fact, this was one of the arguments for SC 2.
This idea (removing a lot of settings) will give also an advantage to Fanatec…And I didn’t sell my SC1 for less options
And finally, do not forget the professional use.

If you remove everything for just the “Simple Mode”, I think I will sell my SC2 Pro !

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