Simucube 2 True Drive software feedback thread


#183

I am not mocking anyone, it might serve you well to remember I am an end-user like you. The guy is being guided, he is not listening.

So, no dramas, continue, I will bow out of this one.


#184

ok, and where is the guide?


#185

In the eyes of the forum users it’s not unreasonable to suggest that we see you have a relationship with GD so your words carry more weight than your average end user. When those words appear somewhat condescending towards a paying customer then it would serve you well to realise that you may be called out for it.


#186

It would be really helpful if there were some basic, out of the box settings for inexperienced users.

That’s why I suggested earlier that it would be a good idea to have a separate thread for each game, created by GD, and have some baseline settings in the first post.

Basically, a “Start Here” type of thing.

For me personally, I’ll most likely not touch any True Drive settings before trying each game, so when I do fire up said game for the first time and it doesn’t feel quite right, I’ll then be facing a problem along the lines of “which slider do I move first?”

I know the above will probably sound dumb to the experienced users but for someone who’s using a DD for the very first time, all of these settings can be quite overwhelming and I can imagine it would be pretty easy to get lost real quickly and end up back on the forum thinking that something is defective.

Just a suggestion…


#187

Ok, i see. Cause then i was playing with fine tuning settings in iR both D and F also gave me very strange noise.


#188

Totally agree with you!
And more, if GD try to do a SC2 like a new brand in wheel base.
Other brand have it!
for example, you can show the setup that did with the professional driver posted on youtube, such as basic setup to rally


#189

I am not insulted nor trying to insult you.
It makes no difference to me what you do.

Most every post that you have made on this forum clearly shows you are very unhappy.

What you explain you want I do not think you will achieve with SC2. Whenever someone recommends settings to you, you usually respond back how crappy it feels.

I will not respond to you anymore as you think I am attacking you. I just hope you can find it in yourself to believe what others who have alot of experience with direct drive wheels are telling you.

Good bye and good luck! :slight_smile:


#190

read your very first suggestion to me!


#191

Second that, why not ship it with predefined profiles for different sims. At least starting point to tune from.
Not everyone came with OSW or SC1 background, although I’ve read less than enthusiastic comments on SC2 behavior in different sims even from experienced SC1 users.
Do we have any sim racers in GD staff to provide first hand recommended settings.
Is SC2 tuning that much more complicated than MMos or SC1?


#192

another thing is not only it’s my first DD, but also it’s bit hard for me to understand all this tech stuff like 300Hz there 1000 Hz here :slight_smile: I really would like to see simple homo sapiens language, like turn this to get this. Like engineer to driver… Understeeer? ok, turn this 1 click :slight_smile:


#193

Yeah seemingly from nicsos’s comments SC2 starts with recon disabled, meanwhile this is not recommended at all. That’s not really a turnkey profile. Though I find it a bit weird that Mika teamviewer’ed him without finding any issues like recon being disabled. I guess the sc2 has not been tested that indepth if a basic feature like recon being 0 is not apparent as an issue, if it really is an issue.

They have been talking about putting some recommended settings in the userguide, though it seems it won’t be out soon.
I’m not sure if their testing team just lacked in game experience beyond iRacing for recommended settings, simply didn’t test other games, or what it is. Not much they can change about their testing group at this point though, the wheel is out in the wild.


#194

Quite the contrary. Now that the firmware is out and that there are no major issues found, we can focus on making such profiles for several games. That is actually in work right now and will be in the next release, with some minor bug fixes that have been reported since the release.


#195

I tried your settings from the M8 @ Montreal video and I still wasn’t happy. My main annoyance so far has been this “don’t touch the kerbs or I’ll break your wrists” attitude the SC2 is giving me.
However, I also tried another config from someone here in the forum, apparantely it’s Max Benecke’s setting and that one is really really sweet!

So I quickly analysed both configs and found out that setting the slew rate to 0.1 is the trick to getting rid of those freaky force-increases on kerbs and walls. This way I can also significantly increase the force setting ingame and now I’m finally starting to appreciate the feeling and the finesse of the SC2 :smile:

and let me add that I really have no clue what the slew rate limit setting does, but it works :wink:


#196

I’m assuming that the slew rate limit is limiting the motor’s torque slew rate (the time rate of change of torque). The SC2 Pro is capable of 8,000 Nm/s (or 8 Nm/ms). This means that at if you set the slew rate limit to its max setting, it will allow the motor torque to change as quickly as 8,000Nm per second (or 8 Nm per millisecond) which is quite fast! At 8 Nm/ms the motor can go from 0 torque to the full 25 Nm in 3.125 milliseconds, so that’s quite a a lot of torque to experience in your hands in a very short amount of time. I’m an electrified vehicle controls engineer in the automotive industry and we generally limit our traction motors to about 2000 Nm/s during normal operation. So I can certainly see how a large slew rate could feel uneasy when you hit a kerb since it will allow the motor to quickly change the torque going to your hands.


#197

thanks for your very understandable explanation :+1:


#198

The point of that was that basic base settings should have been made prior to release by beta testers, but they seemingly didn’t test many games :slight_smile: Testers should be capable of testing other games prior to release, unless the drivers were quite buggy until or a few days before release.
I’m sure you can see how daunting the profiler can be when new, fanatec had profiles ready for their release.

But I’m happy to hear it will be with next release, though you didn’t mention any eta so people with no experience can only wonder how far it is out.


#199

Thanks for the explanation!
Any other terms that you could explain so us mere mortals could understand settings better is highly appreciated. :):smiley:

Damping, inertia and friction and their relationship with each other is always the hardest to explain.


#200

Hi all! New here, some experience with DD from sim-mate (Bodnar). I mostly race AC and as a hobby create car physics for AC. At first I was a bit underwhelmed and could understand some of the reactions here. However I found out that AC itself is the part of the problem (at least in my case).

On most boards it’s adviced to enable the gyro effect in AC when using DD (in the OSW thread I read this only works properly with ‘Direct Input’ damper filter enabled. Somehow this introduces massive amounts of damping with the SC2, killing all the details and as a side effect introduces latency.

However when I disabled the Gyro, the machine turned into another beast resulting in an instant grin :smiley: this was the speed and detail I knew from the Bodnar, now I can feel the wheels and the road and boosting the recon filter without loosing too much detail and even add some damping too.


#201

Sure thing! However, keep in mind that I’ve never actually owned a DD wheelbase before (SC2 Pro on order though!) so my comments below are an educated guess on what each filter does based on my engineering background (or at least how I would design them based on my experience). Once I receive my SC2 Pro and get some time to play with the software, I can revisit these comments to see if I was close and to provide a more thorough explanation.

Inertia: Think of inertia as the effective mass that you need to move when you move or rotate an object about a specific orientation. For example, try rotating a broom stick about its center of gravity (in the middle of the stick making a big circle the diameter of the length of the broom) vs rotating it about its axial axis (like rotating a shaft). As you can imagine, it takes a lot more effort to rotate it about its CG than it does about its axial axis. This is due to the difference in rotational inertia about the two rotating axis even though the mass of the broom stick is fixed. If you were blind folded during this test, you would think that you are rotating two different objects since it takes more force to rotate one vs the other. In a similar manner, the motor shaft is directly connected to the motor rotor (effectively a large cylinder containing all of the permanent magnets). The motor rotor has a fixed value of its rotational inertia and it is determined by its mass and physical dimensions. This means that you will always need to apply a certain amount of torque in order to accelerate the motor. The beautiful thing about electric motors is that they can generate both positive and negative torque. This means that it can either help you turn the rotor or it can fight you. This means that it can adjust the amount of torque it provides to you in order to make it feel like it has a larger or smaller rotating inertia (and this can all be done in real time!). The end effect is that a large inertia will require more torque in order to accelerate it whereas it takes a lot less torque is required to accelerate a small inertia. Note that the effective inertia only comes into play when you accelerate the motor. It will have no effect when you are spinning the motor at a constant speed or are holding it still. My guess is that increasing the inertia filter will make it so that you need to provide more torque in order to accelerate the motor in one direction or the other whereas decreasing this filter will make it so that it will require less torque from you to accelerate the motor.

Damping: Damping is a subset of friction in that it will act to slow down the motor. The simplest form is a linear damping model where the amount of damping torque is proportional to the motor speed. In other words, the faster the motor spins, the more torque it “eats up” due to friction. However, damping is only active when the motor is spinning (a function of the motor velocity). The damping friction torque will not exist when the motor is stationary such as when holding a steady turn. Damping is great for oscillatory systems since it will dissipate some of that energy to slow it down. In the context of a DD wheelbase, damping will smooth out the motor speed but too much damping will make it feel like you’re rotating the wheel through a pool of molasses. My guess is that increasing the damping will make the motor velocity response smooth but increasing it too much will make the ffb feel numb or with minimal detail.

Friction: Since damping is already covered, I am guessing that the Friction filter refers to what we call Coulomb friction. As an example. imagine pushing a really heavy box across the floor. At first, it will take a lot of force to get the box to slide, but once it starts sliding the amount of force required to keep it sliding is less than what was required to keep it moving. The force that was required to get it going is static friction (sometimes called Coulomb friction). Think of the Damping filter as the sliding friction and the Friction filter as the static friction. Here, I am guessing that the Friction filter determines the amount of torque that you will need to apply in order to get the motor turning.

So in the end we have four main tuning knobs: Inertia determines how much torque is required to accelerate the motor, Damping determines the amount of torque to keep the motor spinning, Friction determines the amount of torque required to start moving the motor and Slew Rate Limit places a limit on how quickly the motor torque can change. Again, these are all my assumptions based on my engineering background. Perhaps @Mika or @phillip.vanrensburg can chime in to give more details. Cheers.


#202

You could enable gyro and disable direct damper