SC2 Sport FFB drops and wheel turns itself (ACC mostly)

Simucube 2
1

Hi there, my SC2 Sport has been failing after 3 to 10 minutes of racing, for the past months. And I can’t figure out what seems to cause it. So I’m hoping to get some advice here.

Issue. FFB stops in the middle of a practice or race and the wheel turns itself to one side. Other usb devices continue to work (or perhaps reconnected quickly enough). There is no fault code in True Drive, but sometimes the application stops responding when the situation occurs.
The motor failure mostly happens in ACC, but every once in a while in other games as well. But AC is no problem, can drive that for hours straight without any issues (luckily). But, the motor did fail once or twice in AC so technically it did occur.

Tested. Replaced the powered usb hub, bought a better power strip, made sure usb ports cannot be shutdown by Windows. Monitored my pc with hwinfo for cpu and temperatures spikes. Game reinstalled incl. documents libraries. Nothing. Graphic settings in game, nvidia side, lowered graphics. Side note, I also play demanding games like Hitman 2 and Tom Raider, both on 4k ultra with no issues from the pc.

My power strip is connected to an non grounded wall socket. The fuse box in my house is grounded though. This is what worries me currently since I can’t figure out any pc related issues.

Specs. P1-X. Ascher-racing bbox flippers usb, with magnetic flippers (read about emi on the forums). And then of course pedals, shifter, bbox, handbrake. PC i7 9th gen, 2x16 GB at 3200, 2080ti msi trio, noctua cpu cooler, 850w gold. AV receiver and 4kTV are used for audio and video. Both are powered by the same strip as everything on the sim. The strip is a double 6 socket brennenstuhl. Pc power goes to a separate wall socket.

I saved the True Drive event log last time, right after the motor failed again. Would you please take a look at it for me? Any conclusion helps at this point!

Thank you, René

sc2_sport_eventlog.txt (7.5 KB)

2

Someone on the iracing forums had intermittent problems – it turns out one of their power supplies wasn’t plugged in properly, and when the SC2 was requesting peak power it would fail. Clearly you’ve checked lots of stuff, and probably this too, but perhaps replace the power supply to make sure it’s healthy?

Another idea: you can change the verbosity of the logs in TD – is the one you posted maximally verbose? If not, try posting that.

3

My current verbosity level is set to ‘Normal events and state changes’. To which setting should I change it?

Just checked power connections again and they seem ok. I never bend cables too tight on the connection side, because otherwise the (copper) mass will get damaged over time.

“…and when the SC2 was requesting peak power it would fail”. Can peak power be reached on the straight too? Because it’s then where the motor fails most of the times. Not when hitting a heavy kerb for example. I read similar stories on the forums here.

4

Did a test a few minutes ago and the motor failed in ACC after around 5 mins. I have set verbosity level 2 ‘FFB effect value data’, here is the log file.sc2_sport_eventlog_2.txt (7.4 KB)

5

I have this problem in ACC if UE4 crashes and the game exits abruptly. It sounds like your game was still running fine, right? Does cycling e-stop get rid of the issue?

6

This might cause some interference that could cause the PC USB port to bail out with an issue, that then causes no FFB / stuck FFB issue.

7

@kevinloh correct, everything keeps running.

@Mika Thanks for your advice. I will have to check whether a grounded wire runs to my wall socket, or is at least reachable. There are other ways to ground, but I read using the heating pipes in my appartment is, apparently, not the best solution electrically speaking.

8

Great idea somebody else had today. So half an hour ago I connected the motor directly to a grounded socket in my house, with certified camping electric cables. Why didn’t I think earlier about the fact I have 25 meters of neoprene outdoor laying around in the basement, doing nothing because I’m not going camping this year?! Stupid me.

Tested. But unfortunately a negative result. But this time I got the ACC error message 99% cpu usage. I wouldn’t be surprised if multiple issues are playing. So the coming days I’ll be testing again, still with the grounded electrics for the Simucube. But now let’s see if I can pinpoint what is happening to my CPU. I have tested that before as I mentioned in my opening post, with hwinfo64. So it seems my story continues, but hopefully a small step has been made. Update soon, thnx for reading.

9

If it is a USB issue there might be traces of it in the Windows event logs – check those perhaps.

10

Hello Botmeister,

just try only another (a new USB Cable with or without ferrit cores) from the SC2 motor to your PC directly. I think thats it. If not you can try these emi Things. Or try your SC2 on another PC if it works correctly.

11

Hi Botmeister,

I suspect im having a similar issue to yourself here and have been trouble shooting.

Im suspecting a ground loop issue in my USB ports but have not found a conclusive fix/cause. I also have a h-shifter that runs on an arduino board that is sensitive to ground issues that has problems when mounted to the aluminium rig but is totally fine when completely isolated. I have tried everything with wiring/grounding, and tested my house earth is ok. so its really just excessive noise on the usb cable that causes momentary disconnects or sometimes full disconnects.

I fitted a usb isolator to the cable and it seems to completely fix the issue with both the SC2 Pro and also the H-Shifter. Ive now ordered a few more of them and will use usb isolators on all my low bandwidth devices. maybe give that a go as they are cheap enough and if its fixes the issue im fine with that.

I don’t have any other problems with anything else on my pc. So I think its noise generated inside the pc. People often use these isolators to clean up audio sound. I read a report of one guy with a 2080ti comment that the sound noise is allot worse when the GPU is under full load in games. coincidently I also have the MSI 2080ti trio like you.

I found someone else with similar strange issues on a sim rig that he could also only completely solve with the isolator: https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/race-sim-stopping-analogue-voltage-emi-problems.1276879/

12

Windows eventviewer does not monitor USB peripherals. Some time ago I tested my USB ports with a tool (forgot the name) which kept track of On / Off events. I was hoping to find a specific USB device to be the first to cause issues, but it was always a random device. Thanks for the suggestion.

13

Ok, I haven’t tried replacing the SC2 usb cable. Could give that a go, thanks.

14

So I read the thread you shared and some other random articles about USB isolators. Didn’t know this exists. Interesting.

So your suggesting that I put an isolator between the SC2 and my USB hub? Or between the USB hub and pc?

B.t.w. my powered USB hub is 3.0 on which these isolators don’t seem to work. Did I understand that correctly? Or is it about the connected devices, because those all run on 1.0.
The hub is of course backward compatible. I have no high speed devices connected to it. All sim equipment is low speed.

15

yes these isolators are only low bandwidth… I also have a 10 port 3.0 usb powered hub (a really good one with big psu on it as i thought that might be the issue).

I just used one of these isolators plugged into the hub and the SC2 cables goes into the isolator (you cant run the whole hub from the isolator it doesnt work so you need one for each device you want to isolate - for me just the base and shifter). not had a single freeze since even with a REALLY cheap unshielded usb cable that would make it happen usually within a minute or so. if i removed the isolator and put the cheap cable back it freezes straight away again.

When its just a momentary freeze it doesnt register as a usb disconnect (no disconnect sound or event viewer in usbtree) but that’s effectively what it is for me.

16

Guess I’ll buy 2 isolators then. One for the SC2 and one extra to further test in case another USB devices needs one.
Connected to the hub are: h-shifter from Fanatec, wheel side button box Ascher 16L-USB, handbrake Heusinkveld, 3 pedals Heusinkveld, external button box Ignition Controls NA2ex. And then of course the SC2 sport. 6 devices total on a 10 port hub.

17

Sounds very much like a ground loop issue somehow. It would be interesting to see the whole topology and electrical wiring of the system, there might just one isolator or a breakage of the ground loop needed to fix this.

18

A while ago, I got those USB malfunction error messages in Windows toast notification. It was one of the first things I tested, but I came to a dead end. What I noticed is that these notifications don’t appear as much as I would expect. But that could be a Windows thing.

Just bought 2 Adafruit 100ma isolators. Hope to share my results soon!

19

rig
rig2016×1512 736 KB

This is my rig. Gaming pc and rig all now powered from a single high quality surge protector strip with earth detection which says is fine. Whole rig grounded to the same power strip
I have tried every single combination of grounding but nothing helps. I have an issue only with the SC2 Pro and the h-shifter nothing else usb on the system, both of which looked fixed with the usb isolator. I really dont know what going on. maybe an issue with the motherboard. but certainly agree its some sort of ground loop issue on the 5v rail.

I found this post of someone also trying desperately to hunt down a ground issue on his rig and nothing worked. and the usb isolator was also the only thing that fixed it for him: https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/race-sim-stopping-analogue-voltage-emi-problems.1276879/

Any suggestions for the actual cause I would try tbh.

20

Some surge protectors have also ground protectors that can cause funny things. Might be worth to try without that, just for interest.