New product announcement speculation

Simucube ActivePedal News and updates
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Hi,

Here a perspective from somebody who bought SC2 pro in 2019

I’m following this thread now from april this year, are we talking about 2022 or 2023?

I saw a vid from gamer muscle about Accuforce’s FFB based on telemetry or G-forces like Live for speed. Can we expect something like this in the near future or are we talking about something else?

My dilemma on this moment is, I wan’t to play ACC the way Iracing IRFFB feels (and better) and that is not possible with ACC’s FFB.

I also was hyped about the online profiles came out, because I don’t have an Universal degree for setting up the SC software with 100 sliders etc. I was planning to take a profile from somebody else with knowledge, but also these prepared profiles gave me the same FFB feeling as before.

To be honest when I switched from T300 IRFFB to SC2 in 2019 I was expecting a mind-blowing difference, but I’m still waiting for that feeling. How long do I have to wait, otherwise it’s maybe time to change to another brand who already sorted these things out (been thinking about this lately). Because after purchase in 2019 the FFB still feels the same, only the GUI changed.

Kind regards,

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I’ve upgraded from a G27 to an AccuForce to a SimuCube 2 Pro and I never had that experience.

What you do get is a more refined, complete, and tuneable experience that you appreciate more over time.

But I’ve loved each upgrade for what it brought to the table. I’m not saying it wasn’t worth upgrading. It was well worth it each time.

So, I think the mistake here is thinking the wheel can change the way games deliver FFB. The software can do that, as you experienced with irFFB, but not the wheel (at least not the wheels I’ve used).

Most people “tolerate” iRacing FFB but would prefer irFFB (ie. software). AccuForce owners have a Steering Feedback Foundation in the SimCommander software which is basically a custom interpretation of the raw telemetry physics data available from the sim.

It sounds like you’re asking for a Steering Feedback Foundation in TrueDrive.

That’s pretty complicated and I think SimXperience did it because they had to, anyway, for their motion platforms.

It’s a great feature for users but not sure if it’s worth it for companies like GD.

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@VIncent I ve purchased my SC2 pro in 2019 too and I totally understand what you are saying. SW wise there has been no perceivable (at least) development. Yes, the paddock was a cool idea for many people but didn’t change FFB. I have talked about the need for telemetry based FFB many times in various topics. I have not had any personal experience with Steering Feedback Foundation (I wish I had the chance) but if Accuforce was able to do this 10 years ago, I am pretty sure GD can pull something like that off. If such a thing can be paired with an SC2, then this is what I would call a revolution, an unbeatable combination. I personally don’t care for dual clutches, lcd panels, leds, rotaries, etc. I just want to be able to enjoy the best FFB possible. That is why I invested in Simucube.

TD is certainly not bad, but it is just a software for us to filter and limit the servo in order to try and sanitize the crappy FFB signal from sims. Other sims have it better, others worse. Over the 3 years I am owning the SC2 I have spent more time playing with TD than actual racing. I have been part of the team that developed the AMS Custom files spending hundreds of hours in it. The thing with AMS2 was that it allowed us to create our own and desired (for us at least) FFB signal without the need to apply any filtering in TD. In January of 22 with the same team we started for fun to work on an idea similar to IRFFB for ACC. Surprisingly, the result was amazing and the FFB of ACC was transformed to being great (again to our personal preference), something that had blown us away at that time. Anyway, we had to abandon the project as it was too ambitious and none of us had the time to invest in more troubleshooting and testing. We also lost the working file and had to start from scratch so we gave up. All I am trying to say is that if a bunch of blokes were able to do this in our free time (not more than 20 hours), I am pretty sure that seasoned professionals and a serious company that can also profit from such an endeavor can make it happen. For me this would be the future. Simply put it will not mater if a game has good or bad FFB, assuming that there is telemetry, its FFB can become amazing. A wheel by itself with a few filters regardless of how great it is, it cannot fix a bad or lacking FFB signal. So, the company that will bring something like that in the market together with a solid base (e.g. SC2) will wipe out competition.

Somehow, I just hope that GD will do something like that one day.

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Just to add to that, Logitech have their variant of telemetry driven effects called True Force, not as advanced as AccuForce but certainly step in the right direction. Titles like DR 2.0 could greatly benefit from telemetry driven effects.
But I understand that GD one person dev resources are already stretched razor thin to tackle something big like that.
Just a wild thought, SimHub already can read telemetry, may be wotever somehow can get motivated to build some universal telemetry based enhancer for DirectX FFB signal, something similar to ACCFFB.

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Exactly. True Force is doing that for the transducer. Absolutely games such as DR2 or any kind of simcade would become awesome. Also as far as ACC, the sw we had started developing (similar concept to ACCFB but way beyond it) would totally bypass/cancel the game’s ffb and based on the telemetry available inputs (e.g suspension, yaw, speed, angles, slip, etc etc) we were able to reconstruct the whole (or at least most) FFB, even get scrub/tearing. That’s with 3 people (only 1 coder) and only within a couple of weeks (not more than 20 hours combined). So, although I have no idea how many people from GD are working on the SW development, I have to assume that there are quite a few. I cannot believe that Asetek paid good money on the IP agreement to get consultancy from a weak team. So I am quite sure they can manage if they want to. Also being Simucube I believe they could get the support from sim devs on their effort.

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I totally agree with you. In the video tutorials (Nr. 7 about settings in TD and in-game) it’s clearly stated that TD is a tool to fine tune and one should first do settings in-game. TD is torque related. If someone has the idea that TD can make a bad FFB good he is wrong.
In TD it’s written that problems caused by the use of online profiles can’t be blamed on Granite.
https://youtu.be/uw8CmSJWcRo

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My understanding they just wanted controller FW to get going, SW will be their own.
Will be interesting to see what they come up with SW wise to set themselves apart from competitors and GD. They’ve also clearly stated full intention to support consoles, when with GD it’s just “nope”.

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The motivation of Asetek is a transfer in know how in both directions, funding a company they believe in and to give Granite cash to develop projects, get new and skilled people. Asetek is a top shot company for water cooling solutions and made this solution a mass product. Last, but not least, those who were the founders of Granite got rewarded for the first time cash wise. It tremendously helps to hold the team together. Granite most likely was at a point where expansion and growth wasn’t possible anymore by funding through credits, and which is a way that doesn’t make sense economically at certain points. Going together with a strong partner that has also an esport division, is geographically close, aswell dynamic… IMO a very good decision

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Where does it leave SC2 users though? :thinking:
Will SC2 continue to evolve when we have new kid on the block actively supported by Granite, or it will be the same as what happened to SC1, and IONICube before that, and Argon before.
Would you buy SC2 today if you knew about Asetek with more powerful motor, display, better SW, and killer QR that is easier to use, that supports wheels with displays, analog axes and does not need a battery?

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Well Andrew, I had the luck to receive very good support from experienced people. For me the wireless was never an issue. Together with the Simucube 2 I bought wheels which are all powered by active USB hubs. I would never buy a Simucube 2 (or another product) when I can’t use 3d party wheels, tbh. That is why I am also against all those ecosystems forcing me to get what they offer.

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I can tell you for example that VPG sim developed a QR solution. They finally abandoned the project because they couldn’t really improve the quality, and the price would have been crazy. They didn’t it because the Simucube QR is bad, but to extend the product line.

This I don’t fully understand. Do you say that Asetek is producing motors themselves and Granite actively uses its sources for this? Or do you mean this in general?

The way I understand it is that Granite will be fully independent. Where it fits they will work on projects, but I assume these projects are within normal dimensions. It’s not that Asetek took over Granite, nor did I see signs that they installed own people in the board of directors, or seeking control.
Both Moza and Simagic are Chinese companies. And Moza is a kind of spin off or “baby” from Gudsen, a company involved in camera technology. I don’t fear those companies because they very often copy what is very successful. If you look at the Simagig it’s obvious that this is more than a copy, it’s very close to illegal and violates designing rights (the way I see it). I don’t think Granite will let its customers down, why should they.

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They use custom made Mige with 27Nm, different motor from SC2 and a little more powerful, although 2Nm difference at these torque levels is only good for marketing bragging.
But we should probably see first how well it gets received when it finally hits the market, we have only seen some prototype with 3D printed parts and talkative and overly enthusiastic CEO.

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Bro, I’m honest, I didn’t know about this. Now I can also follow, or catch up, to your concerns.
Why the heck is Granite conquering itself? Or does this mean that Asetek will be the ones “surviving” while Granite is doing something else?? And what impact has this on our guessing what this revolutionary thing will be? It can’t be a new DD, can it? Dude, I’m lost at the moment. It really looks like the knowledge transfer goes more from Granite towards Asetek. No one is immune against “golden parachutes”. But this would be the end of the brand Simucube as we know it. I’m in the middle of nowhere. Fuck

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Dude, yes something must be going on. That is why we have been ranting and speculating about it the last few days. Asetek basically bought the help/service of GD in its wheel development, SW/FW, for sure QR, maybe electronics, etc…? Now to what extent, we cannot know. Why GD would sell this to a direct competitor? What is the case, is GD shooting its legs? We have all seen the Asetek new wheel base with all the goodies (don’t care at all personally). But this may as well be a better SC2. Have a look at this vid at min 27.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEHYdpoxs6o&list=WL&index=138&t=1773s
This guy somehow might even be talking as well about a telemetry based FFB (very wild guess, something about the F1 2022 FW). So all this together with a new product and also a revolutionary one in less than 3 weeks? Is it going to an SC3 with i don’t know what new features? Is it going to be a crazy new SW package? Is it going to be an announcement about partnering (or whatever) with Asetek introducing their new wheel? Motion? Pedals? Who knows, everything is possible. For sure if it is new base (unless it is a low force one) then it is not going to be pretty for us (SC2 owners).

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Asetek offer will be like actuals SC2 Sport/Pro but adding leds, screen, fixed e-stop and power switch, propietary Qr, and and a more squeezed servo. It is what we all know as today

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What does that mean exactly? :slight_smile:

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Just that!
To me, It is clear that SC2s are on the “safe/conservative” side when talking about servo temps and durability, so Asetek can squeeze that a bit more

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It’s getting more complicated

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Not much factual content in this thread yet.

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Totally overblown comment, tbh.

All that GD did was sell IP of SC2 at a specific development time-point to Asetek. Asetek can then develop accordingly. GD is free to do whatever it wants with SC2 design, this deal does not inhibit any development by GD wrt SC2.

Asetek is opting for some custom Mige motor - delivering 27NM. So what. SC2 Ultimate can do 32NM. If that’s not enough for the bitter-enders, well, I have an original SC2 controller here at 40A POS output, powering a 47-60NM servo. But I can tell you at these levels, it is an hair-raising experience, with ample room for injury.

SC2 Pro @25NM imho is the sweet spot. I am 100% sure, if the 27NM Asetek wheel poses a problem for GD SC2 Pro, there certainly is some headroom available in the servo, temps considered, to counter it. In my experience, electronics have quite a good amount of headroom. This really is a non-issue, deal between Asetek and GD was a good financial incentive for GD, amongst others.

You know guys, in 2015, I had a 20NM small Mige running at 30NM. And it is still alive, so like said, this is no big issue and Asetek marketing hype only.

Whilst I have not tested the Asetek wheel, my suspicions around the hollow shaft and low inertia remains. Think Fanatec Podium DD2. I beta-tested mine, gave feedback to Thomas at Fanatec, and shelved it. For my personal tastes, just a bad dd wheel experience.

I think over the next years, people will realize how good the SC2 hardware is. It was far ahead of it’s time, and I cannot see anything remotely on the horizon that will overtake it. Sure, there could be some improvements on software side, but even then, it is already the best from available wheels at present.

I see somewhere else someone is asking for >1,000hz usb update rates . To what purpose, when Windows OS /API is the limitation here? If they want to, GD can share the real internal update rate of the SC2 hardware, it far exceeds that anyway :slight_smile:

Only a few more days, guys, your minds will be blown. Again!

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