Are you accepting feature requests on behalf of GD now?
Congrats on promotion.
I asked @Panschoin some questions in the hope, I can learn something from him. If there was a chance to learn something from you other than narrow-mindedness, I would have asked you the same questions
This a perfect comparison. I switched to Apple from a Droid and absolutely hate Apple. Everything on an Iphone is a pain in the ass. Wheres my trusty Droid?
Man that is huge discussion… TD is what it is and what it has been for the last 4 years. It mostly does the job but i believe there are certain things that can and should be improved. I could do a commentary based always on my personal opinion for each slider and setting, what things can be removed and what can be added, but that will take a lot of time, which i currently do not have. I have commented and explained many times during the last 3 years in this forum what could be done, so what is the point of spending more time in this. GD team will do what they want to do according to their business plan, model and vision and of course they are entitled to do so.
Aside from what could be changed to TD or not, i would like to one day to see telemetry based ffb. A company that will pull that off with a well thought software and a decent hardware will rule the simworld.
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Thanks for taking the time! You sound a bit disillusioned and abandoned by Granite. As you mentioned, each company has its business model, plans Aso. We, as customers have to understand that a forum is not really an opportunity to participate in the management. Even handled serious, in general it is more a marketing tool: Family, we count on you, you are important (we race as one 
)
I will inform myself about telemetry based FFB. Thanks also for this input.
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To back that up here’s feedback from user using ACFFB that utilizes some ACC telemetry.
And we were teased by new Recon implementation for a few years already, would be nice to try it out too.
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I am not feeling abandoned or anything, maybe a bit disappointed as i was under the impression that we would see meaningful developments on the TD side all these years. Don’t get me wrong i still enjoy my scpro, but i know it can become better…The purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas, suggestions, share settings, help people, report bugs, etc. Obviously we are not in any position to change GD decisions or visions and that is reasonable. Maybe in the best case, we can only influence them a bit. The fact that we spent some good money to buy their product, does not make us shareholders. But i believe it is ok to express our thoughts/criticism.
As far the telemetry based FFB, as @Andrew_WOT well said, ACCFFB (or IRFFB) is a very good example. Basically, you can use the telemetry directly from the sim to feed the FFB by bypassing fully the sim devs ffb model. That means that you can do whatever you want with the FFB, provided however that the sim gives enough telemetry data. As a proof of concept on this, a year ago together with 2 mates (i have mentioned this 2-3 weeks ago in a post) we used a similar solution to ACCFFB to disable totally ACC FFB and used the sims telemetry (from suspension, shocks, absorbers, tyres, angles, road, etc. etc., all available parameters) to build the FFB to our liking. The next step would be to create the interface with sliders for each effect but the project was aborted due to time constraints. Nevertheless, i can guarantee you that we were blown away with ACC and its potential. The sim was transformed to at least what we thought was great. TD setting did not matter at all, all filters were off. So you can imagine that if this is done properly, the possibilities are infinite. As long as a sim gives enough telemetry data, then we should be able to do whatever we want. Obviously this is not an easy task, but Accuforce had done it 10 years ago (not sure how successful this was though). I am sure that if company wants to invest in such an approach, it is doable and should change everything.
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I sometimes use certain expressions to dramatise and to thrill. I know that you just have/had expectations you think are to the good of all here.
I expect that game devs will do a better job in the future. Titles like WRC are made for controllers while the main sponsor is Fanatec, hilarious. One can’t use 2 shifting devices, totally shameful. What you describe sounds absolutely amazing. I hope we gonna see a new AC soon and that it comes with an FFB engine with the capability you describe.
A pure and perfect FFB signal passing the Simucube untouched, this is what Granite wants, and also we simracers.
Again, thank you for taking the time!
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That is the beauty of the telemetry. We do not need to wait for any sim Dev to do anything. They can have their intended FFB as they wish. But by tapping on the telemetry data (which are already available) we could probably create the FFB we want to be fed directly to SC without the need of additional filters and corrections. Just a single point of settings from the software (no in-game), so imagine how easy it would be to share settings (as in Paddock) between us. DR2 could become awesome, WRC the same, etc. etc. etc. You can have the best dd base in the world, but if the sim is crap, then it will not matter, your experience will always be crap.
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You carry a vision, now I realized that you talk about something almost (or really) infinite. It’s also autarkic, like open source. How smart is that: one can basically cut off an FFB that is given from game engine and use telemetry as his source, wow. I have no clue about on how to realize. Maybe dumb question: there would be no hard coded stuff, just a huge mass of signals, or what? And a DD, how would/will she learn what is what? There would be no real receiving and deliver, more a let through environment. Wow…
Exactly what I think too: a poor FFB will stay poor, no matter what, at the present time at least this is the situation
The SimXperience AccuForce did telemetry ffb brilliantly. Before iRacing started improving their ffb implementation some people swore by the telemetry ffb.
Telemetry ffb is simple and complex at the same time. You’re just taking raw telemetry data already shared by some sims and creating an ffb interpretation out of it.
iRacing ffb used to feel very artificial and far away from what people thought of as good ffb at the time, like rF2/AC/AMS/etc but when you used the telemetry ffb it immediately and dramatically felt closer to those sims.
It wasn’t a perfect fix and as I understand it requires per-game implementations and so requires more work.
But if you’re trying to set yourself apart it’s a great item on a product feature list to say you have.
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Ok let me try to explain this as simplistic as possible (also i an not an expert and wasn’t doing the coding in this effort). So the sim itself use the data from the car, tyres, suspension, steering rack, yaw, slip, heat, road, speed, etc. That data (lets call them telemetry) feed the FFB model which is then communicated to the wheel input device. The FFB model by the sim devs is coded as they consider right and also to be applicable to all FFB input devices. A G29 will get the same signal as a DD wheel… So you can understand why we need to rely on the settings software (TD) of each DD base to correct if we can the signal.
Now a software is needed to cut off the sim FFB and tap on the telemetry signals. This software then will combine the telemetry data to meaningful signal for the input device. This needs coding of course and good knowledge of how the data from the telemetry need to be combined to create a meaningful signal. Check for example a custom ffb file for AMS, it is not using telemetry in this sense but you can get the general idea. Once the basic model is done and the forces/data are combined (of course needs lots of testing), there can be sliders in the software or values that can affect the feel. For example how much strength you want on oversteer, brake lock, tyre loading, etc… The whole effort will require coding, knowledge of what the different data and forces do (if the sim dev helped in this it would be great), how should be properly combined and actual testing by people who know how a car should behave and drive. Perhaps each model should be done for each sim title as different telemetry data/values are be available, but really there are not so many sims… All this may sound crazy, but a full time team of experts should be able to pull this off in reasonable time depending also on the required complexity of the model and what you want it to do.
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I believe AF telemetry based tuning complexity is what killed its wide adoption.
Same story why SimHub overtook SimVibe in popularity for transducers effects tuning, it’s just much simpler and more sensible.
I personally think “added” telemetry effects to title generated main FFB is easier to implement and tune route. This is essentially what ACCFFB does and this new Logitech TrueForce effects.
Some road effects here, some tire scrub there, gear shift, etc.
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Tell me when I ask too much. When I unpack data in AC I can see files defining a car. Suspension, gears, weight Aso. This is “communicating” with the physics engine, correct?
Telemetry, as I understand it, is a way to deliver specified data, in this case… what? The “mix” from car data and the physics engine?
What exactly is the difference in what arrives at the Simucube? Or is it the same information, but more detailed, easier, better…or is it a different way of how to look at it but based on the same information? Sorry, I swear it’s the last question about it 
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@Andrew_WOT i would agree with you, but seeing that with a few hours within a couple of weeks 2-3 guys we were able to reach to an almost working model that had already improved ACC experience in many aspects, i believe that this whole effort if done properly will be possible. A holistic approach would be the ideal scenario, but of course anything at this time that would be an add on as you describe should be a lot easier, could work well and is more than welcome. Additional things could as well be added to it further on.
@CLAYREGAZZONI
I think that the car data feed the physics engine which then feed the FFB model of the sim which then sends the signals to the input device. The FFB model of each sim might not use all the available data from the physics, just some depending on what the sim devs want to present. In most sims the data should be there but are not used, or the FFB model use them in a way that might not be ideal for a DD wheel. With a telemetry based FFB you can cut this process and make use of all the available data to build a model as you see fit. You may have a look at this that can give you an idea
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Thanks a lot, both of you, @Andrew_WOT @Panschoin! Very interesting and helpful information that you are willing to share, very kind 
Maybe a naive question, but what FFB-relevant data can you get from telemetry that you cannot get from the physics engine or the tire/car/track/weather models?
I guess you can always add artificial effects or whatever you like on top of physics-based FFB, and I can see how telemetry allows you to do that, but I don’t see how that makes the simulation more accurate.
As i previously said, i am not an expert on this and i am not certain on the definitions. So if we consider that the physics engine is the same thing with the FFB model which is developed by each sim dev, then the data you can get from it are not raw and might not be the full spectrum. You can use this maybe to add effects but you cannot alter the FFB really as you are relying to the code of sim dev. My understanding is that you can get the raw data from the telemetry to then build your own code/model for FFB. As said, not an expert and might be saying BS, but the idea should be this more or less. Anyone more knowledgeable on this is can provide more accurate input.
This is more about immersion than simulation accuracy. If you look at sims like ACC they mostly funnel steering rack effects to FFB signal leaving the rest to the telemetry where you can experience them today with some tactile or motion setup.
Are they really “artificial”? Depends how you look at them, they are certainly generated by physics engine, so from this perspective they are real, but not experienced in real life via steering wheel, SOTP mostly, so you can say they are not real from that respect.