I think it’s not as easy as you might think. But there are enough effects that change the signal. But there are very few effects that really benefit the community. But there are still many to try.
Here a small selection.
There are strange interactions in signal processing when filters are processed. It would be easy to make the system unstable, and that would increase our support workload. We would need to test and analyze all possible combinations, and that becomes quite a large task. Also the code becomes easily a if-then-else mess if we take precautions for the corner cases.
For example, we could easily replace the torque bandwidth limit and slew rate filter with a better smoothing filter that would give better result with less lag, but community wants to have all filter options even though all of these result in the same result eventually. Our competitors do not have many options and ways to achieve a single result - make torque more or less smooth…
Answers to these questions are going to be revealed when its time.
Had to try…we will find out in a couple of weeks then. Jut hope we won’t be disappointed.
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It is more about the fact that one of the things the Simucube grew out of and is Known for is a wide range of adjustment to suit just about any desire.
When things are removed or altered that narrow the range of adjustment in the system it sort of goes against why many bought into the SimuCube in the first place.
There are lots of wheels out there now that have “less” adjustment but at the same time that means that in some cases you are not going to be able to find the feel that you want out of it…
The SimuCUBE is quite RAW in its normal filtering and implementations without as much behind the scenes trickery and this is where it shines… The resistance I believe comes from that fact in that people like and bought into getting the best representation of what is coming from the game and then being able to interpret it themselves, RATHER than having someone else determine for them what that interpretation should be…
Granted this is harder for many people and there should be some easier methods to figure stuff out but that is why it has been suggested about an Advanced Settings that allows full access to the current state of raw filtering… With other visibility options to allow for easier basic set-ups… Then as a driver may expand their quest into finding the optimal settings for them that can delve deeper…
The resistance is due to possible loss of what has become important features or ranges in settings and with that the concern that altering the existing will actually affect the feel they have in a negative manner which it very well could as you have said yourself and I have said that filtering is a balancing act and altering one filter could have a negative effect on others and overall feel.
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Many == very small minority, and we’ve got the data from device telemetry on how many people actually enjoy tuning settings daily instead of just driving.
Imagine we continue to have filters that work great and those same filters have downsides in some situations that are not well documented or that would require complex documentation, and a competitor releases a product that has a great one slider to achieve the same adjustment range on wheel without downsides or caveats. I think, at that point, we are in a bad place and will head towards facing the same thing that happened to Nokia in 2010 - great features but very bad user experience. Why wouldn’t we doing constant improvement on the current features as well on all levels?
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If this is the case and assuming you have a working model already why not give it to some on the forum to test? Im sure if the feedback was good the resistance to change would be far less. I think the biggest issue many of us have is like many companies have done in the past when supposedly upgrading products is taking away features people actually used and wanted. Youll never make everyone happy but i dont think many of us would complain if something actually worked better.
Exactly. It is just normal reaction for people to fear any change, even if the change for the better.
We are not in the position to have a working model yet. But the new product announcement this Thursday will be interesting on technology side of things.
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The problem is it does have to be proven to be better… as there are Thousands of cases with regard to software where something that was “better” made things worse for quite a while… The reason this happens is as you know sometimes you have to change a bunch of underlying stuff to make the changes and then you do it it flops and take a TON more work to get it back…
The other question is if there is an issue that you are finding why not fix the filter as the filter, Why fix it and combine it with another? and possibly cause actual issues with reminding settings should things not be right for someone as opposed to a possible alteration of just that one filter…
I do have to comment on this “we’ve got the data from device telemetry on how many people actually enjoy tuning settings” This DATA can be severely misleading… as once someone finds settings they do like they are not really going to be messing with them on a daily/weekly/monthly/ or even yearly basis… which gives the impression that things aren’t being used or changed and that is because they are not… They found what works and then don’t change… Also how do you account for those that DON’T opt in to share telemetry?
The fear (and yes it is a fear) as it can alter the way you feel about the equipment you have is that a “Change in filter basis”, Not talking added filtering or possibly simpler implementation with the underlying filters being intact, will change your baseline settings that you have found and enjoy…
The other thing with this data is that it is self perpetuating being that features implemented such as Cloud tuning, and simpler set-up bias these results to show what you want them to show over time… as new users are less likely to explore what the wheel really COULD do becasue they are fed settings that are good enough… Granted alot of users are fine with that…
So in the end it is a personal opinion on what is actually “better”.
In the end if a MAJOR change is made it needs to be done at Major update intervals 2.0, 2.0, 4.0, ect… or at complete product change situations and when done at a major update interval make it easy to back-grade IF the user doesn’t like it… (that hasn’t really been the case). Then the change isn’t so much of an issue because users can get back to where they were prior OR if it is in a product changeover it will not have any reference to the prior product… Altering on an interim release is a dangerous user proposition as they don’t expect or in some cases want the changes.
I don’t have any issue with advancement or changing, I will just choose not to upgrade if I don’t want it but if I want to try it out and don’t like the results I would like a way to get back easily to something that works for me…
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It’s not always about tuning every day sometimes it’s intense tuning for a little bit and then leaving it once you have the right feel. If you don’t have the proper adjustments then you can’t even get to the right feel.
I gave up on tuning the AccuForce after a while once I realized I just wasn’t going to get the right feel out of the hardware.
Accuracy and precision of tuning ability is important, as well. I have found noticeable and preferable differences in ffb feel down to a thousandth of a degree. I have the excel spreadsheet bisection searches to prove it. So, just having integer 1-100% sliders may not be enough.
New is great unless it dumbs down the existing tuning options and prevents users from attaining the feel they would like.
I have always thought why just not just have a simplified interface for those who are satisfied with that with a backend advanced interface. Something like that is already present in TrueDrive.
I don’t think this “telemetry” that most disable out of the box anyway is in any way reliable indicattor of how many people utilize full scope of settings.
If I tuned settings to my liking for a few titles I race once using ALL available filters, why would I continue tinkering instead of just driving.
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To add to the above a bit…and to bring it back around to Moza or the topic… is that Moza chose to do the equalizer to make it appear that they have alot more adjustability over things… Granted the EQ is probably the HARDEST method possible to do this do to variance in the incoming signal (not as straight forward as oh this is curbs, this is gras, etc…) But it says to perspective buyers we are giving you EVERY option to be able to tune this to what you want… The appearance is that Granite is trying to reduce these options which is not good…
I guess it is sort of the Apple/Android debate… Android has pretty much everything at everyones fingertips where apple either hides or does not allow users to adjust certain things… Apple GETS RAKED by its users when they try to hide or eliminate something that they have gotten used to using and 90% of the time they relent and bring it back OR they make it available through a slightly different process (deeper in the the interface i.e. advanced settings)… Android puts it all out there to be used by everyone anywhere…
The interesting thing here is that Granite seems to be trying to simplify what is actually Probably one of the Simplest systems there is currently (ONLY really 12 regular adjustments) then 6 more or so with the Direct input). Everyone else is trying to make things more advanced.
Every other system I have run has been actually more difficult to get right and while I haven’t run many of the NEWEST out there every other system is lacking something that just makes the SimuCUBE right…
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If I want an easy to setup DD today, I never would buy a SC2.
It is too late to change the “Game”, It could have been better to change TD before Paddock was a thing because the “great” share of profiles will be to no avail
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Why I bought a Simucube 2? Because I was lost, already back then. So I asked VPG sim, and they had 1 product they can recommend: Simucube 2.
We all talk about these settings, those settings. Almost no-one take the steering wheel into consideration, and also not the rig, and not the cars we drive. Fe I can’t drive with formula cars with friction at 10, 20, 30. I need quick reaction and not a wheel that is resisting.
In the Simucube tutorial video about FFB and torque it’s mentioned more than once that in-game FFB settings should be done first, then TD. But the number of people doing the opposite is quite huge.
So we talk not really the same language. I also doubt that a lot of people disable their telemetry out of the box. I also doubt that a lot of people thought about software when they bought their Simucube. The vast majority bought it because of the very good hardware. I expect that game developers are going to deliver better FFB and from Simucube to deliver first class hardware and settings to adjust torque.
seems like i’m in the minority who intentionally have telemetry on to help the developers.
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I’m with you, don’t worry! I never thought about turning it off. I’m sure Granite is not big brother
Ok all this discussion is a bit pointless. Some of us say we need new improved filters, others say the TD in its current state is great, GD says we are not doing changes because of the community objections, so on and so forth…
The real question to GD team is simple, are you guys plan to make any changes in TD at some point for SC2 users or not? If not, that is respectable and then there is no point in debating this any further. If yes, then provided you are open to suggestions, we will be happy to assist.
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What do you miss the most, and why (if you miss something at all)?
I think that Paddock is in theory a good idea, but the hoped-for added value did not materialize (why isn’t that important, the result stays the same)
Do you have high expectations that the new fine tuning filters project will bring substantial improvement?
Is there a solution from a competitor that is better, and if so, can it be “transferred” to TD without an insane amount of work time from Granite?
You clearly want to move on and also leave stuff behind, that can’t be changed.
Are you accepting feature requests on behalf of GD now?
Congrats on promotion.
I asked @Panschoin some questions in the hope, I can learn something from him. If there was a chance to learn something from you other than narrow-mindedness, I would have asked you the same questions