This is my take so far
I wonder if people are thinking the Torque setting is limiting the game’s maximum calculated Nm torque?
I’d be surprised if that’s how it worked. I would expect they’re calculating the real, actual Nm force and simply compressing it into what your wheel can handle, almost certainly linearly.
OK. I’ve done a fair bit of testing this morning. The three parameters I compared were the Mirko settings shown in my attachments: For convenience these were …
… versus what we discussed subsequently:
Contrary to my earlier impression, there is a clear difference between these settings: Setting 1 feels much more forceful than Setting 2.
I have never driven any sort of racecar, so I have no idea what they are supposed to feel like in real life. However, I did follow the iRacing suggestions of Daniel Morad found here (Daniel Morad YouTube video) and I find them to result in quite a ‘heavy’ feel - maybe a hair too much for me.
Turning back to LMU, my impression is that with the lighter set up (Setting 2), it was relatively easy to put in too much steering input, whereas with setting 2 the wheel seemed to resist this - ie it gave the impression of ‘not allowing’ you to dial in excessive steering. For example, going into La Source with the LMP2 car, I found it relatively easy to flick in a little too much steering with Setting 2 thereby losing control of the car, whereas Setting 1 prevented me from doing this.
It may be that it is possible using Setting 2 to have a higher in-game FF Strength that matches the feeling of Setting 1. I have not tested this, since I was curious to hear what folks who know what they are talking about might think.
The main reason for posting was to answer the question posed above. Specifically (for me at least) TD 100%; Torque Sensitivity 25; FF Strength 40% was not the same as TD 80%; Torque Sensitivity 50; FF Strength 100%.
Wow you’re right, there is a difference. I tested TD 100% + TQ 25 + FF 50% vs TQ 50 + FF 100% and the latter felt like more high-strength brief forces were coming through. Like, more detail not more strength.
One thing confused me, I tried TD 100% + TQ 12.5 + FF 100% and I assumed it would feel like 50% of 25Nm but it felt like 25Nm. Only when I lowered FF to 50% did it feel like 12.5Nm but it didn’t feel like TD 100% + TQ 25 + FF 50%, it felt somehow different, maybe less high-strength momentary forces.
So it seems like maybe the in-game Torque Capability is a peak torque (signal amplitude) cut off.
That said the differences in any of these setups is subtle and is not going to ruin your experience if you don’t try them.
I tested increasing SFR to 30% / 10% Inertia with increased ffb strength to compensate and it gave me much improved sense of front-grip / grip-loss in LMU. It seems quite effective at boosting the low-end signal for road surface effects. Some increase in Friction and Damping were also needed, as shown above.
Do you mean that any in-game forces above the TQ would simply not be represented in game? That would seem an odd way of doing things.
Would another way of ‘dialling down’ the overall strength at-the-wheel be to keep increasing the TQ value so that the ratio to wheelbase-Nm is larger - in the same way that increasing the strength in iRacing brings down the at-the-wheel forces? I might try that tomorrow.
Incidentally, I tried the Hypercar with Mirko’s settings (TD Overall Strength - 80%; in-game Steering Torque - 50; and in-game FF Strength - 100%) and the experience was pretty wild. Even using my dialled down GTE settings (TD Overall Strength - 60-70%) were pretty grim. So maybe I need 3 profiles for each of the cars.
In short, no! TQ seems to max out at 50. That may be why Mirko dials down the TD strength. So, it
is looking like I will need a seperate profile for each class of car.
Hi all, first post but I’ve been reading here for a while about rF2, ACC and now LMU.
I am still skeptical about the recommendations in the video. I’m trying to verify the claim through data in motec as we can export the FFB output to see a what changes. Maybe I can follow up with that when I get around to do it.
For now we have some information from the devs here: Discord
Hey, the max torque setting doesn’t actually change FFB in all cases. It only scales all effects when a car is used that has its force set either lower or higher than the defined strength (I forgot which). So in most cases at 50% you get the same thing as you’d get at another strength at 50%. The reason max torque is being set here is only to give the game information about your wheel so it can scale some effects accordingly. Since this might not even affect most use cases, whether it makes sense to keep it around at all is fairly debatable.
So maybe there is something strange going on with certain cars, but the Max Torque should have a minimal effect, if at all, on the FFB dynamic range.
This can be verified by changing only the Max Torque and keeping the same Strength setting in the game.
I could not find any linearity issues between the “Steering Shaft Torque” and the “FFB Output”, in fact they match completely given the right scaling.
In my journey of understanding FFB I did some FFT plots with various filter levels with the idea to mimic the filter setting in game (from 0 to 9). We can see how the low frequencies are mostly untouched (<10Hz) while frequencies above around 40Hz are heavily diminished.
Wondering if that video makes any sense. According what we know the steering torque capability in the LMU menu is referring to the torque output of your base expressed in nm. So, if you have a SC2 Pro and you have overall strength at 100% in TD, you should put 25 in torque capability. What’s the point to put it on 50?
explaining ffb feeling with words is a bit tough. it will be quicker to test it and see if you like it.
I agree, but still numbers are numbers. I suspect there’s a lot of placebo in those settings
Thanks Ibovay. I’ve not looked into this in great detail. I don’t know what a ‘FFT plot’ is, but your core message seems to be that it should be possible to get a similar feel with settings that don’t require you to put an ‘incorrect’ value in the in-game ‘Steering Torque’ setting. With that in mind, I went back and did some more testing. I have also watched Michi Hoyer’s FFB video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgH2Mi1k-54 I’m not sure exactly what wheelbase he uses, but he seems to be running it with an older version of Simucube software. He mentions tha he uses ‘no other filters, no dampening, no inertia … nothing’.
I’ve been trying out his settings today - along with 25NM as SQ and 40% FFB in-game. In TD, I’ve gone for 100% but have turned off all filters (as Michi suggested). I have to say that this feels pretty good to me. I wonder if the Damping, Friction, Inertia and so on (that I’d got from the video) was somehow masking the raw FFB of the game. Anyhow, with the same settings in-game - apart from STQ at 50 and FF Strength at 40%, I’m pretty happy. The TD settings I’m now using are as follows:
Any comments?
Actually, looking at it, I see that I have set a Slew Rate Limit of 6.03 and have Ultra Low Latency Mode at 5%. Not sure where I got these from (a hang over from Dan Suzuki and the Italian video, possibly). What do these do? Any specific suggestions about those filters?
In my experience, filter effects depend on the base output set in TD (and not the game). So if you lower the game torque strength, you should lower the filters as well. I don’t like to run high filters, but a little bit helps to smooth out the feedback and allows me to keep the wheel straighter without loosing much of the “feel”.
On my end I run 40% in game, 25.1Nm. 100% in TD filters damping: 8, friction: 4, inertia: 4. Then I like static torque reduction around 25%. The effect of these filters is accurately described in the Simucube manual.
Finally the torque rate in Nm/ms specifies the max torque acceleration allowed as a “ceiling value”. A value of 5 means that it takes 5ms for the base to go from 0 to 25Nm output. In my opinion the useful range here is either very low (0.5-0.1) or leave it at unlimited and work with damping filter or reconstruction filter. I run it at 0.25, but I’m working on understanding what the game actually outputs in terms of torque rate to see if this is really needed once the other filters are fine tuned.
I admit I have a more numbers based approach, but I like to understand what I am doing to get the most out of my setup instead of copying what I find here and there as it differs pretty wildly from one opinion to another, sometimes without much explanation.
ULL is debated in great length in this forum, but in the end it’s used to minimise the oscillation behavior due to latency. I’ve read that it is setup dependant (system latency from monitor, os, wheelbase, etc), but also that it was meant to be an on/off option (which means it could have a sweet spot value). This was left as a customizable setting because some games, including rF2 and per extension probably also LMU, did not play well with this setting. My approach is tune everything to your liking, and finalize by setting this as high as needed to minimize straight line oscillation but as low as possible. Somewhere between 5 and 15% seems ok. One way to see the effect is to crank your ffb to something like 100-150%, until your wheel starts oscillating in the pits. Then as you increase the ULL parameter, the wheel oscillation diminishes at some point. But of course once you lower the ffb to a more normal 30-60% range in game, the ULL sweet spot might be somewhere else… it’s a tricky one for sure and not too well documented as far as I can find.
Bonus, here is another point of view to weigh in: https://youtu.be/gUfTGlQi7HI?si=w35bbcFGM7kgDEYt This is a “less is more” approach that looks at what makes you faster on the track versus what you enjoy to feel. It’s a balance and we all have our idea of what’s ideal for us.
Cheers,
Thanks again Ibovay.
Interesting video. And I am sure that Moritz is correct. It would also explain why I found Michi’s suggestion of 35% FFB Strength in-game to be a little anaemic. I use 40% strength for the GTE and LMP2 cars. I think that I may end up with something a little stronger with the Hypercars, but I’ve barely tried them so far (and FFB strength is the least of my problems with these beasts!)
Hi If possible can you post your in game ffb settings please? Thank you.
Look a few posts above: https://community.granitedevices.com/t/le-mans-ultimate/11412/16?u=gnomus62
Start with these settings but change Steering Torque Capability to 25 and Force Feedback Strength to 40%. That’s for the 25NM Simucube wheelbase.
Thank you. Shall I use your latest TD settings?
Devin from s397 confirms that putting STC higher than the nm of your wheel makes no sense at all, I think that video is all about weird trials and placebo
That’s up to you Cinek. But bear in mind (and I hope it’s clear from reading my posts) that I don’t really know what I’m doing.
I have made some changes based upon what Ibovay has said in the thread above. I’ve done some further testing today, and am reasonably happy with my new settings (below).
This is for the 25NM wheelbase. Watch the video that Ibovay linked to. And dial in the FFB strength in game to suit your taste.
My latest settings are:
Thank you @gnomus62 I have tried your previous settings and the ffb feels really good. I will try the new TD settings. Anyway I’m really enjoying the LMU atm and hopefully they will iron out the bugs and give us more content.
