r0zina
I do not like how it cuts the high peaks, leaving a linear signaling, I keep in mind that the blows are hard, but they hold up well, never broke my hands
mika
I also use this profile in assetto corsa, it is not random, since it makes the wheel when I practice Drift with these parameters move very naturally, without stumbling blocks and with a fair speed of return (neither too fast, nor lazy).
I realized that although it has no effect on the signal of the game, but it does have an effect on the effects of Damping, Friction and Inertia, which we add to it from “Other Filters”, it is subtle but noticeable.
easy81
Well now that you notice the very hard overhangs, have you tried to lower compression and rebound in the setup of the car ?, I have access to 4 brands of payment setups and I can assure you that sometimes they make authentic aberrations, even though they are fast, many times I correct them.
So i wanted to test just how good Simple mode could be and drove with the Pro Mazda. With advanced mode i use inertia to tune out oscillations while still keeping the wheel relatively free running low friction.
In Simple mode there is no way to tune out these oscillations without a massive amount of damping and friction completely killing the feel of the wheel. Unless simple mode get expanded i am sorry but your wrong. Please try for yourself.
I believe the intention is to add more options to simple mode.
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I did not make it through all the posts, but I have to say this is a very helpful forum, good job everyone! Anyway here is my description of the iRacing force feedback settings.
First off, in an ideal world we would not need any of the FFB sliders in iRacing. We would just send the raw torque signal in Nm straight from the physics to the wheel and let the wheel itself handle it all. The wheel would still need a way to turn down the force levels, both to avoid saturating the output and for user comfort. We could treat that like a stereo with a volume knob and a clipping light. Most users would figure that out in a few minutes.
The world is not ideal so we have sliders. In particular the api we use to communicate with the wheel takes a unit-less value that ranges from -100% to +100%, but our physics works in Newton meters of torque. The fix there is the max force slider (click on the word strength to toggle the display to max force if you don’t see it already). That sets what torque value in physics will map to 100% when sending our signal on to the wheel.
You want to set this max force value to be at least as strong as your wheels output (17 Nm for SIMCUBE 2 Sport), and in addition you want it to be higher than the peak force the car will produce in ‘normal’ driving. You can find that peak force via telemetry, or by watching the F meter in sim for clipping, or you can use the auto button in sim to work out that force. Auto works by collecting data on your driving, and over time will work out to a reasonable level what the peak torque the car produces. Auto is the button that shows up in the F9 black box next to the FFB Force adjustment in sim, and also next to the Max Force slider in the options, and won’t show up unless you have put in a clean lap in the car.
Auto has a problem, it can work out the max force the car produces, but it does not know what the max force is that your wheel can produce. If you have a Logitech G27 it hardly matters, that can only produce 2.5 Nm of torque so all cars will produce more torque than that. On the other hand if you have a SIMCUBE 2 Ultimate set to max in the driver you can produce 32 Nm of torque at the rim. Pair that with a car that has a light steering and auto may only see 10 Nm of peak torque from the car. That causes a real problem, if we set 10 Nm from the sim equal to 100% force at the wheel, you will feel 32 Nm of torque when the car asked for 10 Nm giving you 3x the force of the real car, or a serious assault on your hands!
To correct this flaw we have the Wheel Force slider, that is where you tell us what your wheel produces so we can stop auto from setting Max Force below that value. If your wheel is set to 100% output you just set this slider to whatever the torque is on your wheel base. If it is set to less than 100% output you can do the math to work out the correct number (so a 32 Nm wheel set to 45% output is 32*0.45 or 14.4 Nm).
All that is a minimum that gives you the most fidelity at the rim without producing an unrealistically strong force. You can (and probably should) turn it down from there (set Max Force even higher) especially if you have a really strong wheel. You have two choices here, you can turn things down in the wheel firmware or in iRacing. My recommendation is to set the wheel firmware to the strongest force level you want to experience, and then tweak the feel in iRacing if that still feels to strong while driving. If you just turn things down in iRacing then in some extreme crash we may end up sending you a signal that still requests 100% wheel force and you don’t want any nasty surprises.
On top of that you should always use linear mode with a strong DD wheel. When we started iRacing there were no strong wheels and non linear allowed the humble G25 wheel to feel more alive. However it is like using bass boost on a $5,000 stereo in this case, basically a bad idea. The same goes for Damping and Min Force, those are there to fix issues with older wheels and should be left off.
In summary, set Wheel Force to your wheels max output (17Nm, 25 Nm, or 32 Nm for the various SIMCUBE 2 wheels), use Auto to set Max Force initially, then turn things down from there if it is too strong.
22 Likes
It is very surprising to see you here, and a warm welcome! 
1 Like
Just wanted to come and check it all out, looks good so far!
Ha, welcome, David, great to see an iRacing Dev here too 
Cheers,
Beano
Good to see you here David.
I hope guys listen to your recommendations!
I read all your post and understood i think in a correct way, but just to be sure.
If i set my SC2 Pro at 50% in the Software, what is the Wheel Force i need to set in iRacing? Do i need to match this value?
THANKS
The wheel force slider only limits the auto setting, so if you do not use auto FFB adjustment in iRacing, then it does not matter.
Excerpt from David’s post above:
Ok so is very straight gorward. I set in the Software what is the Max force i want to feel to not destroy my hands in an accident and then tweak in Iracing the Max force when i am satsfied while i am driving?
Exactly, that is the safest and the best way to do it.
Thanks both of you, very kind
I should point out that there is one other way to look at the force feedback settings, well really one and a half other ways.
You can just set Max Force to the torque of your wheel, then you get a 1:1 output between the physics and the wheel. This sounds great in theory but in practice it tends to be a harsh experience.
This is for a few reasons:
-
In a real car you are bouncing all over the place with 1 g cornering forces trying to rip your hands from the wheel so you don’t notice how harsh the steering is relative to the rest of the noise. At home in a comfy rig you only have the violence of the wheel to concentrate on.
-
Our physics (and all simulator physics) does not model some of the little details that could dampen out some of the higher frequency noise so the force levels may be right but the feel is still too dynamic (like a hiss in a speaker amp you can’t remove). Take your own car to the track and try to hold a turn with only one hand and you will find it is difficult, even if it is not very violent. That is because passenger cars are carefully tuned to smooth out the feel of the road in the steering wheel. Most race cars of course don’t bother with comfort.
-
We don’t always get it right. We don’t have steering column torque data for every car we develop, but when we do have it we of course use it. When we don’t have the data we have to rely only on suspension geometry and steering rack ratios to dial in the torque at the steering column. That gets us close, but there is always room for error. I can say that I have spent some time comparing steering torque curves from real cars to the sim and they are surprisingly accurate. If you recreate the lap with a similar setup at the same track you can almost match it up perfectly bump for bump.
So the ultimate way to make this work is to set Max Force to a multiple of your wheels strength and leave it alone. Assuming that max force is above a reasonable threshold (a minimum of 30-40 Nm) you will be able to drive most cars without clipping and you will have dialed back on the roughness of the raw signal. This has the added benefit of being consistent from car to car and track to track (and setup to setup) so you can feel the subtle differences between all the cars and tracks. You do loose some fidelity here, but to be honest 10 Nm of torque in your hands is a lot of torque, dialing things back is not going to cost you that much in feel.
In this case you can forget about the Wheel Force slider, although I would still just set it to the torque of your wheel to prevent you from accidentally over-driving the wheel. And of course still use linear mode and zero out the min force and damping sliders in iRacing as well.
In summary, dial the force in the wheel firmware to the max you want to ever feel in your hands and set Max Force to 40-80 Nm and forget about it.
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Thank you so much for your knowledge David,
Lately I was playing with Torque clipping notification and never eliminated the beeps, these SC2s are very sensitive! Back to the search&avoid red bar classic method
The device torque clipping notifications are nothing to worry about if you only get that on the hardest kerb hits etc. However, the feature is very useful when you play a game where there does not exist a suitable on-screen indicator/method. And it is meant for initial tuning, and should be disabled when suitable FFB settings are found.
2 Likes
I was trying to find the sweet spot in some cars “by ear” and focus on racing but always ended up with very high max force values and losing all the sensibility of ffb, whatever the force I put on TD.
At the end, best way for me is treat the beeps/redbar clipping as indicators of when the suspension has reached its peak, knock against the chassis lol
This!
We overthink settings too much sometimes…