DD competition is heating up. How will Simucube respond?

Ideas, News & Feedback
42

I know this is an old thread but ive been thinking about this a lot. im seeing all these new companies coming out and yes, the quality may not be up to simucube level just yet, but where i do see simucube lagging behind is compatibility in games. sure it works fine in all the hardcore sims (thank god). but there are so many games i like to kick back and race which are simply not supported or you need to jump through 1000 burning hoops to get a little force feedback.

I know that simucube cant fix these things unilaterally but other companies are getting ahead in this regard which is a real shame.

43

Hi,

Can you name games that are supported by some other generic FFB wheels but are not working on Simucube 2? We recently overhauled the directinput interface and effects so that many older games should now work more easily.

44

Hi, currently Car X supports some DD wheels but i can not get sc2 pro to get any FFB

through forza emuweel im able to get FH games to work but not forza motorsport 7 (controls work but no ffb)
i would love to be able to play the new FM in my rig instead of on the xbox with a controller.

I hope that the upcoming JDM and TDU Solar Crown will also work.

and dont get me wrong im not knocking sc2, i’ve had osw and sc2 its the best piece of kit ive owned. i just wish game devs wouldnt be so hard headed in supporting more hardware. i just dont get it.

im already glad al the “real” Sims work fine, im just not always in the mood for the seriousness.

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45

TDU is Test Drive Unlimited… but what is JDM? Sorry if its obvious, its been a long day :slight_smile:

46

Japanese Drift Masters coming soon but listed on steam.

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47

There are titles which the possibility to use a Simucube 2 is not in the hands of Granite (if this is still the case @Mika).

Then there are titles where the leading company is asking for a lot of money to give access, and it’s just not paying back in an acceptable way.

Then there are cases where a company like Fanatec sponsors a title series, Fe WRC, and ending up beeing the only wheel manufacturer its wheels didn’t work for some time (see the shit storm on WRC generations). In such circumstances some sure try to build obstacles for concurrents.

And, finally, there are such exotic titles no-one heard about. If one plays a lot of them, then this is bad luck. I don’t know if, in total, there is a DD offering significant more access to titles than the Simucube 2

48

unfortunately today there are many who talk about comparisons between the various Direct Drive bases, but all people who have recently entered this world. I’ve been in this community since it was born, I’ve owned OSW with all the related encoder updates, and I’ve owned SC2 pro since its release. I’m lucky enough to have a youtube channel where I review sim racing products, and I’ve tried all the existing bases (I miss the VRS)
hearing that Simagic is indistinguishable from an SC2 makes me tear my ears, I think that anyone who has the slightest knowledge of what a 1M 2M and 4M encoder is as soon as he has any other base in his hands recognizes it with his eyes closed. Only asetek has come very close to SC2, but because they basically use their API. I did the review of Asetek invicta, in which I feel the magnets sharp even when turned on in the slowest rotations, I believe that the compensation algorithm still does not work correctly today (I also have the Forte engine these days)
Yet if you listen to the other reviewers they feel it very fluid, but it is not like this …
I also saw the review of the largest channel (in terms of number of subscribers) in which he says he perceives the difference in LAG between Invicta and an SC2 Ultimate, but do we realize it? Unfortunately, I reluctantly say that many opinions are heard … but are we sure of what they say?

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49

I am now kicking off my YouTube channel. You are right, there are quite a lot of misinformation out there regarding the different DD wheels, quality, performance, features, and few other topics,

My very first review will be to share the history of the early dd initiatives from Mizoo and a few French guys, sadly that Blueboard never made it mainstream, for whatever reason. I will also highlight the important role both Bernhard Berger (OSW) and Michael MMoS played in my early days with Argon,

Next part will be about my deep involvement with Granite Devices in establishing the roadmaps for Ioni/Ionicube, Simucube 1 and later Simucube 2. And of course, how I see this develop further over the next years going forward.

Most of all, I will also do a comprehensive review of the Simucube 2 Ultimate, and to demonstrate the superior quality of the drive-controller in the Ultimate, I will show also how I’ve been overdriving it the last few years by running it 25% higher than what the Ultimate is rated at, on a monstrous servo.

As an EE, and knowing good quality drive electronics from not so good ones, well, let’s just say there is a chasm between what SC2 DD’s are using, and those barely fit-for-purpose Trinamic drivers the likes of Simagic and others are using in their drive-stages.

I will get my hands on these devices going forward, and will pull them apart and do a deeper analysis of some of the critical components. I am really tired of the misinformation out there, and having the uninformed running rampant with all the nonsense claims out there, tbh.

The only dd wheel out there at the moment that comes close to the current SC2 (controller/electronics) quality would be the Asetek - why? Because they bought IP rights of the SC2 at a specific point in time. So electronics HW and to a degree, basic FW, will be on a very decent level - but I am sure they will be lacking the finesse and smoothness of the SC2 at this point, plus, SC2 are using more efficient and smoother servos.

VRS is comparable to the older original SC1 with a small Mige. But with lesser filters, thus not as good from a FW perspective.

Anyway, enough rambling, my channel is almost ready then I will deep-dive into these things a bit.

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50

Personally you are one of the users that I have always valued, above all for your skills. I have a small Italian channel compared to others but I try to give my contribution. The problem is that the public is attracted by something else, the absurd thing is to see very popular channels giving information of a certain type, and the absurd thing is that they are people who have not experienced the evolution behind it at all. and their contents are moved by other reasons.
to compare certain bases on the monso Simucube you have to drive with Barbecue gloves… I liked Asetek a lot, they use a motor that is freer in its movements but with the attraction of the magnets more evident, which is why they cannot with the SW to completely eliminate the jump between one magnet and another…
yet most of the reviewers feel it fluid… mind you today for me it’s the only small flaw it has, because otherwise it’s the closest experience to SC2.
But for the rest, other brands are very far away, encoders with too little resolution, but the serious thing is that there is little servo control… if you remove the filters and go on a straight line like the one in Zandvoort, they go crazy if you take your hands off from the steering wheel. What does this mean? little, little control, to make them better they must be put to sleep with the damping friction and inertia filters…
If it pleases you, I’ll leave you the link to my review
yet most of the reviewers feel it fluid… mind you today for me it’s the only small flaw it has, because otherwise it’s the closest experience to SC2.
But for the rest, other brands are very far away, encoders with too little resolution, but the serious thing is that there is little servo control… if you remove the filters and go on a straight line like the one in Zandvoort, they go crazy if you take your hands off from the steering wheel. What does this mean? little, little control, to make them better they must be put to sleep with the damping friction and inertia filters…
If it pleases you, I’ll leave you the link to my review
yet most of the reviewers feel it fluid… mind you today for me it’s the only small flaw it has, because otherwise it’s the closest experience to SC2.
But for the rest, other brands are very far away, encoders with too little resolution, but the serious thing is that there is little servo control… if you remove the filters and go on a straight line like the one in Zandvoort, they go crazy if you take your hands off from the steering wheel. What does this mean? little, little control, to make them better they must be put to sleep with the damping friction and inertia filters…
If it pleases you, I’ll leave you the link to my review

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51

Thank you for your kind words! Appreciated :slight_smile:

I do not understand Italian, but I anyway watched your video, and I did more or less follow some of it. I have to say, I enjoyed your style in front of the camera, very relaxed and natural. Nicely done!

I will try to contact Asetek to send me one Invicta for review, let’s see if they are interested. Hopefully they will be. Would be nice to see how ‘SC2’ co troller is running the Mige Servo, I would think it would do very well.

If they do not send me the Invicta, I have one spare SC2 Ultimate controller I can still flash again and mount to the large Mige, to give a similar experience. But I need to get a proper 4M Absolute encoder then too. Similar to what I have done on my large AKM64L servo.

Anyway, let’s see, nice review, thank you for sharing.

Question: Were you using a video switcher for you PiP insets? It almost looks like Roland PiP view :slight_smile:

52

I do the pip effect with applications within davinci resolve by applying masks. As for the videos, I insert subtitles in various languages ​​to make the content more usable and I hope you can understand them well. As for your observation about testing an engine that you have Mige, you may have an idea of ​​what happens but not the same because as you well know each type of engine works differently. I used the Mige enamel in the OSW project, when I switched to the sicos encoder and then biss-c I never detected the hop between one magnet and another when the engine was running, I think this is due to the basic structure of these engines, I don’t know what customization asetek got done

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53

What do you think of the profiles from Paddock, which have damping between 20 to 30 percent, friction the same, and limited slew rate to 0.2Nm/ms?
And @phillip.vanrensburg: plans to do a “gain and pain” fitness video episode?

54

In true drive I find them exaggerated, they go too far to brake the servo.I like them as filters but on values ​​around 15%…For the slewrate it is a different matter because very high filter values ​​greatly reduce accelerations and there are people who call a more natural, less nervous, I therefore find the use of that filter very personal, above all in my opinion it is very linked to the total force with which the servo is used… The closer it is to 100%,In my opinion, to have more natural accelerations it is better to use higher values.I am of the opinion of maximizing what is the signal that comes from the game,Tune it with TD, and then don’t touch it again to enjoy the differences between different car types too,An aspect that I see a lot neglected by many users who by changing the kind of car also distort many parameters and also the parameters of strength,Thus making the experience very similar even with completely different cars…

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55

Thanx for earlier answer wrt Da Vinci :wink: I just use a switcher, as I do not want to spend to much time in post-processing :slight_smile:

Also very good comments wrt filters, agreed. I can find my profile and post it here also, but note I am using big servo with high torque and higher inertia, and those work really well for me. I have shared with a few others too and they mostly like it as well.

Edit: here it is:

image
image534×516 15.8 KB

56

Those guys are probably former Bodnar SS2 DD owners, those settings ( very slow slew) will emulate that wheel quite well. In 2016 I made a review about my SS2 and informed Bodnar the filters were imho, very soft and to extreme, as car felt like it was bouncing on beach tyres, not race tyres.

But some guys like that feel, it is all very subjective.

57

What strength value do you use in iracing? At least to understand your strength level. In Italy I also have a large group on the Direct drive world, I created it many years ago to make this world known,I used your video with boogeyman per far capire proprio il discorso che si può guidare bene anche con forze elevate🤣

58

I normally run from 60-65 in the max-force slider, so specific ratio is ~0.7 But anyway, once you go above 32-35NM level on the servo, there is no real difference, other than you can completely avoid any clipping of setpoint signal.

From my experience, there is very limited useable data for any car above that level, maybe short sharp spikes, but due to filtering, you cannot feel those anyway. Only time the big servo becomes an issue, if you are taking a leisurely drive across the top of Mt Panorama and somebody unexpectedly rams you into the walls. Then you are exposed to the full fury of the large servo, and very easy to injure your shoulders.

59

Say challenging force levels, but do you use static force reduction? Or the slew rate?

60

I do not use SFR. But I run slew rate at around 3.2 - 3.5 level, more for feel than anything else. I used to it at max, but lately prefer it lower because it gives better rubbery tyre feel to the iRacing cars :wink:

61

As I drive just single seaters from RSS (the Hybrid cars from 18 to 22), the new VRC alpha 2022 (which is imo a great car too) I don’t really change TD profile. If there are changes needed, then they are small and mostly in-game related.
These cars all have power steering, so torque at the steering wheel doesn’t go above 10 to max 12Nm.
And I drive rally, which is a totally different world. The steering wheel’s weight, shape and diameter is so different that these settings aren’t comparable to others. The game titles aswell are so different in physics (WRC9 and RBR) that I have a profile for each of them.
I’m also convinced that settings from a profile based on a steering wheel weighting 1500 gramms and a diameter of 300mm aren’t transferrable to a wheel the weight is 1200 gramm/285mm diameter. Shape and weight distribution should be for all titles also part of the considerations.
PS: Mirko, dimmi, questo modo per il acceleratore di BJ, dove posso comprarlo? Grazie e saluti !!