Both options seem to do a similar job in taming oscillation when on a long straight but I couldnāt quite decipher if either of the two gave a better sense of grip loss and settled with DD at 100 and ULL at 0.
How did you guys feel about going one way or the other?
Million-dollar question, Paul.
I commented in my post that they get extremely close. I felt that no DD approach communicates road effects a bit better and wheel is slightly more reactive. But itās all very subtle.
I will probably stick with DD as itās what Kunos designed and recommend and it might be truer to what physic intends to communicate. But the fact that we pretty much can mimic it via TD filters is very impressive.
Slightly off topic as this isnāt ACC specific but Iām wondering about the meaning of āStaticā in Static Force Reduction.
Iām sure thereās a perfectly good technical reason for including that word but would it not make more sense if it were called something more like āCorner Force Reductionā or something similar, seeing as thatās the general result that is felt from moving that slider?
I know the effect is described very clearly in the user manual and am just thinking out loud hereā¦
So Constant Force Reduction.
Still considering that all FFB in sim is essentially a Constant Force with very few exceptions, not very accurate.
I am also curios how it calculates when this reduction triggers, I mean it canāt be using max Nm as it rarely reaches it, is it duration of the effect?
Are any of you guys finding the need to have a per car TD profile with these new settings?
Iād been exclusively driving the Lambo whilst changing things over the last week or so but decided to try out the Porsche yesterday. The oscillation on the Porsche was massive, to the point of being dangerous if I dared to remove my hands from the wheel at high speed.
The actual FFB from both in terms of surface, bumps and slides etc was still good and equally comparable, the only big difference was the amount of oscillation at higher speeds.
For the Lambo, I was using DD 100 + ULL 0
For the Porsche, I needed DD 100 + ULL 15
Both were driven at Monza for a fair comparison.
Has anyone else noticed the same or similar thing between the various vehicles with these newer settings we have recently started to use?
Apparently that is a very important feature together with the gamma filter that ultimate has and pro doesnāt. From my personal experience I have been struggling lately to get the best ffb out of my SC pro and I realize now that these additional filters or features do play a significant role and would have helped me get the 100% of a rather expensive product that suddenly doesnāt seem to be so much of a āproā version. 2 years ago when I got my pro I thought that it would have everything I need (at least that is what the marketing was saying and peopleās reviews) and back then it seemed that there was no reason for me to spend the extra 1K for the ultimate as I thought that these extra filters are just cherries on top and for sure I donāt need the extra NM. Instead of having to depend on each simās questionable ffb application (why? Simply because they need to tune it for the so many bases in the market) these āminorā filters would have given me the headroom to tune my base exactly as I need and find fit for me.
Yes I understand most people will not care for these, they just canāt spend the time and effort to fine tune, or they are lacking the knowledge and experience to do it, so it wont matter. They just copy settings posted here or they will try from the online TD once this is done and settle with it. But there are people like me that we do not want to settle on something that is okish especially when we have invested that much money on hardware. I donāt want to be misunderstood, I am loving my SC pro and at least before I started getting more heavily involved with trying to improve settings and feel (there is obviously a learning curve to it) I thought that I had the best thing there is out there (apart from the ultimate which is too expensive IMO). Now I feel that apparently there is not much to it and could have easily saved a few hundred eur going for the Sport or look at another option.
Furthermore, over the last 2 years I thought that there was supposed to be development on the filters and software, but I have found that there is practically none. Itās mainly bug fixes and other things in TD but nothing that really improves the actual ffb (at least that is my impression, I could be wrong). I am sorry but I hardly consider the coming online thing an advantage for me personally, but I understand that it could be good for many users.
So assuming that there is no hardware constraint, would it be possible to bring/allow these extra filters to the SC pro version? People that want to have the best/most expensive thing will still get the ultimate. For people that donāt care for fine tuning, it wouldnāt make difference, but for us that have spent countless hours with settings trying to make the best experience out of our pros, it would make a world of difference. Talking for myself I would even be willing to spend some extra reasonable money for an upgrade package having these filters on my pro, to actually make if feel more a āproā to my eyes and a worth investment. Would that make any sense?
I know this might not be the place for this discussion and apologies for that and also for this big post. It was just Mikaās earlier comment that raised this response and I know that these feature would make my life a lot better with ACC.
I tried these settings and I cannot feel front wheel slip or tyre scrub except in extreme situations where the car is moving almost laterally.
After many hours trying various settings in ACC, I have come to the conclusion that other people are feeling things that are extremely subtle and I just cannot feel them. I drove the Huracan GT3 on Brands Hatch and in the final corner (Clearways / Clark Curve) the car slides from pre-apex to the left side kerb and there is no indication in the wheel of whether the slide is controlled or if itās morphing into a spin.You have to look for visual cues with rotation of the A-Pillar relative to the driverās eyeline and you have to flick the wheel slightly to the left to see if it has any effect on the slide. If it does, then the slide is on the limit; if not, then the slide is the typical vague ACC slide that is so vapid and devoid of detail that apparently the tyres are not producing enough grip to induce any feedback.
And even if the slide can be controlled, itās not because you have the feel to play with the limit: itās because there is some barely perceptible signal that many regular ACC players can apparently detect and parse.
I envy people who say the FFB in this game is good. I switched over to rF2 at the excellent Oulton Park mod, and I drove the Audi R8 GT3 around it for an hour, able to dance the car on the limit with extreme satisfaction.
I mostly agree with your comments. At least with my settings (as per my latest settings post) i get some good slip/grip loss detection (try them out if you havenāt already), but once the slide starts there is not much proper feedback coming through. You can still feel things though to be able to correct but its lacking once the SFR and ULL do their thing (the Dynamic Damping is still a no go for me). Itās ok but i agree is far from optimal. That is why i insisted on my last post to somehow get better filtering or allow for more filters like the SFR timing to the SC pro (or why not the sport as well, both cost a lot of money). I believe that with such things we could have the capability to solve or improve a lot the exisitng issues in ACC or any other title and take advantage of our great hardware. Itās a shame that we cannot enjoy to the fullest titles like ACC which we have to admit have a great online experience.
Thanks - I did try your settings and was not able to get them to work for me. I did a clean installation of ACC and started with a fresh TD profile. I am totally stumped with ACC - I have described it as piloting a dashboard inside a box on top of a hovercraft with transducers attached, and thatās about the extent of it for me.
Something else that ACC does not communicate is unloaded wheel oscillation. Anyone who has driven race cars knows the feeling that the wheels give through the steering column when one of the wheels comes up off the ground during cornering and you get that clear sensation of the road wheel shaking side to side as it spins freely above the ground. As I have said many times, I would love to get ACCās production values and gameplay with rF2ās FFB.
Aris commented on this in his video. The issue is that range of slip angle is very narrow on racing slicks and progression of grip loss is short comparing to say AC. But it is more accurate in regards of GT car tires. https://youtu.be/tV93rntUzN
I personally donāt find it limited but it could be just hours in ACC that let me develop better ālistening skillsā for it, higher gain helps too.
Ah yes of course, that is absolutely true, there is limited info by the slicks and obviously these cars are not meant for drifting. Still my issue is not so much with the details coming from the tyres but rather with the forces coming along to the wheel during this situation. With the Dynamic Damping i get a too loose feeling (from the excessive damping) followed by stronger sudden forces even snapbacks (as our previous discussion). If find that with the SFR and ULL this whole thing is sort of more controlled/smoother for me but I think we are missing the SFR timing which would make things I think a lot better.
I should add that this snapback really varies between cars as Paul pointed out already.
I got very little with McLaren but much more with Porsche.
May be we need combination of Dynamic Damping and ULL.
Another thing is that force feedback really depends on the track, perhaps different surfaces play role but driving on Zandvoort for instance is completely different experience than say on Laguna Seca or Suzuka.
I donāt thereās anything inaccurate with your perception, nor are we feeling something subtle that you arenāt able to perceive.
As Panschoin said āonce the slide starts there is not much proper feedback coming throughā and I think thatās the main thing we are all looking to solve.
Your description of (Clearways / Clark Curve) describes the issue very well and I know exactly what you are talking about. You find yourself having to anticipate and use past experience to pre plan for what you know is about to happen
My feeling is the same. At high speed, itās difficult to feel the onset of a slide and it remains somewhat numb and uncontrollable until that slide has finished doing what it needs to do. I donāt have that issue at low speed, just the higher speed stuff.
I still enjoy the overall ffb more than other games due to the sense of vehicle weight, bumps and kerbs etc but thereās no denying that it lacks that sense of approaching and going over the limit of grip.
I sometimes wonder if the FBB in other games is exaggerated so we can feel the limits of grip better, since we lack all the other senses such as g-force and car vibration etcā¦ I have driven ACC solely for a long while now and can sense the changes well enough to know when I am starting to lose grip. When I go back to RF2, it feels a bit unreal and almost too strong a sensation. I am not a good driver, and this is very subjective of course, but I am enjoying this thread as we as a community search for the holy grail of perfect FFB in ACC (myself included)!
Posting to show my agreement on this.
Why are people forced to a huge ultimate drive to get access to those filters?
Aside from that it seems that no matter how hard they might be to adjust, now that people can easily pull down the best combinations from the online sharing, normal Sport and āProā users would benefit from them as well, not having to adjust those themselves anyways.
@Mika Is this something that is put in the grave for all time or is there a plan so we get access as Sport or āProā users anytime soon?
Ultimate gets new and most detailed filter adjustments first, then the best and most useful ones will be added to other models.
We havenāt seen users using neither the gamma filter or the static force reduction speed in such way that would indicate to us that they really should be on other models as well. If the latter would be added to pro/sport, it would have adjustment range of slow / neutral / fast or something like that.
