Yes, I got my hands mangled a few times too. Hurts like hell, and all of them wasn’t because of the bump stop either. What to do about that, limit the torque? To me it seems counter productive to first buy an awesome piece of equipment and then make it handicapped by putting in limits here and there.
Excuse my bad english.
Unfortunately this is the world we live in and its almost impossible to get rid of liability.
Yep, but at the end, something is better than nothing 
@Dennis: Other option is not to update your FW, impractical for longer-term, but at least something to consider, if you feel strong about this issue.
Yes, I know. I wrote that a few posts ago.
Maybe a few days of thinking this over will soften me up.
Right now, 45 degrees from bump stop is being discussed. Going from 44 degrees to bump stop can still rip your hand off in a high torque application.
Why would anyone want to turn the wheel 45 degrees beyond where they have set their bump stop? I cannot see a reason for this, but maybe I am missing something.
What happens if you have the wheel turned more than the bump stop angle and then deactivating the emergency stop button?
what about instead of disabling the wheel it returns to the bump stop at a low force low speed. eg 1 amp at 5 rpm that way people still wont get hurt and will be able to get there wheel back to center safely
Just a thought
Or just set it as default and leave people like Dennis who don’t want it a way to disable it.
There is always the possibility for adventorous people to disable such features via the open source repository. We intend to update the repository to match the next release.
That was what I meant. There really isn’t much choice but to implement some sort of safety feature to cover themselves. It doesn’t bother me but even if it did I get why they are doing it.
The more the product gets commercial and less DIY the liability goes up to the MFG.
That is one reason I stopped selling OSW on a large scale. All it takes is one person to get hurt bad and sue and bye bye business and house etc. Unless you are incorporated and have big $$ for Lawyers.
Granite needs to make it safer.
And also try to do some filtering to take out the oscillations in the IndyCar on iRacing. Yes it is an iRacing problem, but they figured our how to fix it in the Simcommander software.
We are working on filters, but I’m not promising anything in particular.
I can already run 25nm 1:1 with zero oscillations, Joe, the filters are more than capable. The problem is, folks don’t want to hear about filters, the only other alternative is for iRacing to fix a badly broken car
Unfortunately the real IndyCar driver said that the car does not feel correct when adding those filters to stop the oscillations.
In the real car he can drive hands off.
I know it is really an iRacing issue, but if Berney can figure it out I am sure our Finnish friends can also. 
If you want to run high torque with the Indycar, the only way to do it currently is filter it to death, at this point in time. Same goes for SC software, there are filters to take care of the issue. It doesn’t feel as pronounced due to low ffb torque available from the AF.
If I turn down my servo torque to 8nm, I can have a nice and light filtering to control oscillations…25nm though is a totally different matter. Also, what is a specific feel/behaviour on one Indycar for driver A, might be something else for another driver’s setup…these things are as different irl as they are on the sim.
For the record, I can also drive down the straights with hands-off with zero oscillations up to 25nm, like said, you will need filtering, the higher the torque, naturally the more filtering you will need.
I can do a few tests when I am home on the weekend again, but pretty sure I needed very low filtering when running <10nm in the Indycar…
It is all relative…
Exactly it is relative to each.
It is not a big issue anymore as 2019 IndyCar season started yesterday. He will be in the real car much more than the sim now.
Have a check box with the associated liability indicators listed. Make sure the log records the fact that the user has elected to remove the safety feature. Removes liability from GD and allows he user to be “free” to appear to be in control…
Agreed.
Oculus has a ‘toggle’ that is for safety warnings and when turning it off you are reminded that you know what you are doing and take full responsibility for any accidents.
Same with their 'guardian system that’s designed to create a virtual ‘wall’ that will help users be aware of their real surroundings and not run into a wall, or perhaps something extruding from the wall that may seriously injure them.
Likewise, these measures can be turned off, of course agreeing to the iron-clad agreement (most people won’t read any of this of course).
I think Facebook is covered on this.
GD could do the same, they just need to take the time to ensure that legally they are covered.
While there are many other reasons why I choose Simucube over say Fanatec, one of the main ones is that it’s more configurable and open.
Jimmy Broadbent needs a kick in the nuts for that stupid “100% FFB challenge” video where he demonstrated the stupidity of some people.
But I could choose to seriously injure/kill myself using many common household object if I was stupid enough. Blenders are so useful, but incredibly dangerous. As are garbage disposal systems that nearly every American has in their kitchen sinks, that will make mince meat of any hand that is put down the sink drain.
Perhaps a password protected option to turn off the “nanny aids”?
Kind of like some very fast road cars can allow unrestricted use of their power when at a racetrack (of course agreeing to all the usual legal issues up to and including ones death).
There are options here Mika.
It’s true that it may require a little extra elbow grease to ensure that safety precautions that are changed by the user require them to understand that any subsequent injuries are not subject to litigation against GD.
Let me pose a scenario for you to demonstrate the shortsightedness of this “x many degrees into bumpstop idea”.
Someone’s child decides to play with dad’s Simucube and not knowing the strength of the bigger motors puts his hands in a position on the wheel (maybe hands through the wheel) that will result in injury when the car hits the wall, long before it even reaches the bumpstop.
If you are not legally protected, the bumpstop idea is like putting the cart before the horse, don’t you think?
Don’t get me wrong Mika, I am not shunning safety measures.
I just think there are other options that could be considered, and should be considered as the bumpstop idea isn’t going to avoid injury from things that happen long before that point if stupid people are involved.
And there’s a lot of them out there.
How does Fanatec handle this with their podium series 25nm DD2?
Looking at their product page they advertise a “kill switch” for emergencies - ok, so an emergency stop button like we have with Simucube.
I don’t see anything else unless I a missing something?
I doubt they would advertise something so specific. Mika already told us that they will default it and let people enable it if they want through the opensource repo , if they know how ofc. Not so groundbraking but people can also get hurt with 1:1 iracing 100% simucube if they don’t be careful , or in rfactor2 if they leave the jolts high and hit a wall.
I am more interested in the improvements that we await. We haven’t heard anything in specific.