That’s fine
But is us saying that we don’t want to be forced to use an online sharing system not a good enough answer?
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It is well possible that we would port the online profile management system to work in offline as well via a web application that is fully contained within True Drive and works without internet connection. That way it wouldn’t be an online system anymore. The downside would be that racer would loose the profiles on any PC formats/PC changes if they weren’t synced back to the online cloud.
This way we could possibly be able to use approximately the same code base for both offline and online modes, but the development cost would be 100 times more than the offline mode that is implemented now.
If this is the only way it will work in the future then wouldn’t it be a good idea to have a button to sync to the cloud and then import from the cloud?
So import and export could still be there it will just import from and export to the cloud instead of a file on the users PC
well, that would need a login system for authentication, and an API that would stay stable to serve various previous versions of the application. At that point, it will become very very costly, might as well have a fully online “sync” application at that point.
All work is done by FW stored on the wheelbase, why the data (profile) that feeds the processor MUST be thousands miles away on the cloud?
I don’t think anyone objects ability to publish profiles and having access to shared, limited in size and properly moderated repository of vetted settings, but it doesn’t mean everyone absolutely must have all their data shared or private there. SimXperience have done it right. The feature is there but it’s never forced.
In any system design by adding external dependencies you introduce additional points of failure.
In this case it’s at least 4:
- internet connection
- authentication/authorization service
- profiles data hosting service (subject to scheduled maintenance downtimes)
- cloud storage (database)
Not to mention security concern when cloud storage can be compromised potentially resulting in corrupted or deleted profiles.
As was said, it’s all about choice and price/benefit ratio. Why those of us who see zero benefit from this move, must pay the price, why offline mode must be crippled afterthought for “those who doesn’t want good user experience”, it’s like slap in the face. We are happy or almost happy with our user experience as is today, as long as Classic mode works, we are happy, but it’s already marked as “deprecated” in 2021.8 release, so few releases forward when “real” features start get introduced we will be left behind.
There are few options in my mind that can keep everyone happy:
- Make profiles local for everyone with ability to publish to and import from the cloud repository, but offline is primary mode. Backup/sync to the cloud can be additional optional feature.
- Make new offline mode experience same as Classical, or if new Paddock become better (it’s not at the moment) same as new one spare access to online profiles.
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taken care of with the caching of profiles that can be used in offline mode.
we haven’t seen this provider to have any issues and it is very widely used authentication provider. But valid concern though, they might have some service breaks at times. But if completely failures, you would notice it as the internet would start to have huge troubles.
True, but the service we use via cloudfront is very solid. Modern cloud services are not really susceptible to any extended downtimes, otherwise the whole internet would start to break down.
same applies…
True concern, but then again, backups are also automatic on the service, and login information is stored via the well known and established provider.
Mika, I’ve listed all these concerns based on what we witness and deal with first hand on day by day basis with cloud hosted services. Reality is far cry from what vendors usually promise.
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From my experience with business software, requiring a live internet connection meant having periods of time where we could not access the program and do our work, whether due to local or broader outages.
User control is an important factor, even if only perceived but, especially in an environment based on controller-support. 
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I used the same example with windows in a reply. It is ridiculous to be in an online community sharing pictures and profiles and in the same time seeing the devil in cloud profiles.
Some write about being left behind, claiming to be old customers, arguing that others are treated better…are they gonna be unable to use their Simucube now??? Some refer to polls. I never saw a poll when Microsoft made huge changes in software. No one had the idea that Msoft should discuss this with them, that this is a Kibuz we all sit down and decide as a group. We bought a product and it seems that some were treated so nice that they now overestimate their position. Fact is that this segment just started to explode and no-one can survive with nostalgic products. I personally use the torque slider, sometimes static force reduction, rarely slew rate and hardly ever ULLM. The Simucube is best when left alone. Not too much in-game force, not too much TD force. Is time to focus on now and not on stuff that was decided in a product philosophy and people think can be dropped easily. Mika, do it our way and use your natural resources wisely
To those using the Windows 7 / Windows 10 comparison… True Drive isn’t an OS, it’s software for a peripheral.
Something that crosses my mind on occasion is the process of writing the profiles into the on board flash memory whenever a change is made and ‘save settings to Simucube’ is pressed.
I may have mis remembered the exact number but I think it had a limit of 10,000 guaranteed writes? That seems like a very high number that I’d never reach but I suppose that could well be possible with some hardcore profile tinkerers.
The reason I bring this up is that I’m trying to think of a reason why the need to get everybody’s future profile changes off of the device and into the cloud is being carried out with such determination.
@Mika were you ever concerned that GD might be faced with owners having issues with their servos in the distant future due to them going over that write limit, hence the need to get us online and mitigate a possible problem? If so, I’d totally understand it and would go along with the change myself so as to protect the reliability of the internal electronics.
Up till now, it seems your strongest reason for the change is that you need to make it easier for newcomers to ‘click and go’.
I don’t do any Facebook or social media stuff so I’m very out of the loop when it comes to customer opinions from that arena but I am surprised that any home user who spends upwards of 1K on a servo would come into this expecting really simple plug and play. To me, they’d be like many of us here who started off with a basic Logitech type base and were desperately searching forums for user settings. Once you’ve done that, you learn pretty quickly that’s the name of the game with every base out there. I can however see how commercial buyers would need a nice set of provided profiles out of the box.
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Looks like the biggest game peripheal creator AKA Logitech doesnt think the same.
They adjust its old trusty hardware to new standards, and no shortcuts, just addons
Well, Logitech has also moved on from a Wheel Profiler app to their G Hub.
Yes, but you can use Logitech Profiler if you want, and forget about GHub if no other Logitech peripheal is not in use. Just talking if you have a G27 or G25.
In our case, with new Paddock, is like if i bought a G27 and then Logitech forces me to use GHub because new products runs with It, but my G27 was designed with Logitech Profiler in mind.
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I just can’t compare a Logitech belt driven wheel with the Simucube DD. Although I started with a G29 and shifter I honestly can’t believe that you come up with this. Plus Logitech is a multi billion company where the support is done with AI. Maybe you give that a try while here you communicate with real humans.
Must be an amazing feeling to praise the good old Logitec where the AI is chatting with you and in the same time cursing online profiles
The SC2 line was supposed to be for the enthusiasts, those who want the best, the elit right? and are willing to pay the premium for that. Now the whole thing about the paddock is the online settings sharing which is totally for the masses…simple 1 click and go… I am confused… sorry guys you can’t have both.
This online sharing is destined to fail. FFB is subjective, TD settings is half of the story, sim settings are equally or even more significant and your online sharing system does nothing about that. With software like simcomander you can get the whole deal. At least through the forum, as it is done today we can share ideas, chat, learn from each other, argue and explain our settings and their limitations… how will this be done through the paddock? It won’t, just some ambiguous rating tool…
I don’t care too much about the online/offline but for obvious reasons I would prefer the offline to avoid complications and dependencies. It will be just another hassle just to operate my wheel.
My only concern is to get an improvement in what SC2 is supposed to do, better filters, better ffb etc. in no way a more simplistic use. If paddock is supposed to do that in the future then let’s see.
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Storing all profiles on flash was not very forward thinking decision to begin with. MMos (OSW, old SC1 software) used file system stored profiles and only stored on EPROM the default one.
We discussed that a while back, accordingly to GD devs (at that time) there is nothing to worry about for a million years of active writes to EPROM.
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Mate, there’s a genuine reason why we share multiple screenshots in a forum thread.
Take AC as an example:
We can’t share only a TD profile because many of us will be using Content Manager/CSP and need to show which Gyro options are being used, along with the various ‘FFB Tweaks’ options.
You could have some very undesirable side effects or even an injury if the full line up of settings aren’t shown.
At the moment, I don’t see a way of sharing all of those various details within TD Paddock that would make things any more streamlined than they already are.
As far as I’m aware, there are/will be some dialogue boxes that a user can fill out with some text notes but I don’t see how that is better than a couple of simple screenshots posted to the forum?
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I remember using the G Hub with presets for the G29. And the gaming app profiles for keyboard are all coming online. G hub replaced the non longer supported gaming profile app. It is an identical approach with profiles Aso. To update the firmware of the G29 and to update GHub itself it was necessary to do it online within GHub. Well…
Sure, and I can make comparisions at software level where Logitech shines.
Im tired of reading here comparisions against Operative Systems, mobile phone companies, and all kind of crap like that, but no one compares SC2 software against the software from the biggest steering wheel maker? What a joke…
Do you Know that logitech wheels and Thrustmaster ones have auto-centering forces controlled by the Game itself? Right now It is impossible to achieve with a SC2 base/software, just It is ignored and we are loosing Game info.
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I had a G29 for years.