New SC2 Pro owner - but have problems with pedals now

#1

Got my SC2 after a lot of deliberation. I have upgraded from a OSW Mige from Simplicity.

My pedal set is an Emery Elmond hydraulic set, using a DSD 12bit board.

image

Set up was a breeze and had the wheel firmware update and working in True Drive, Windows etc in no time…

Going into IRacing, I noticed the brake pedal spiking when depressed, ranging from 10% to 90% and in between about 10 times a sec. Re-checked in Windows USB game controllers - and sure enough, the same issue was there.

I did a lot of testing, unplugging into different USB settings and then suddenly, “hey presto!”, I thought I had sorted it. In the windows USB game controllers, the brake was steady - you know, normal. But I noticed the wheel was not connected - i.e. switched off. Switched wheel back on and brake is back to spiking. Turn wheel off, it goes back to normal…! It does this without a rim installed.

Pressing the E-Stop also kills the flickering and the brake behaves normally.

This makes driving impossible in IRacing.

Can anyone offer any help to get this working properly? I have had 4 years trouble free simming with my old OSW / Pedal set up and would desperately want to have the current set up working properly.

In closing, I have to say, the SC2 Pro is a brilliant bit of kit and it was really easy to sort the FFB out etc.

Just done a vid to show…

Thanks in advance and happy new year!
Phil.

#2

It appears to be getting EMI interference from the SC2… try putting a ground wire from the USB Shield on your Pedals to the chassis of the computer. This will hopefully drain what is coming through the cables to your pedals. You can also try grounding the USB Cable (at input) of the SC2 to the mounting bolts of the SC2 as this sometimes works as well…

It is interesting that it is happening with the SC2 and did not with the Simplicity Unit, stranger things have happened though.

#3

Do not do this! Very Dangerous.

If this is connected, and you connect the AC mains of the Simucube 2 power supply, and only then the DC cord to Simucube, you could, with bad luck, get 48 V to the PC via the ground. Which will fry the motherboard and possibly also the CPU.

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#4

True you could get a voltage run through the ground if your Mains are not Grounded Properly (which is actually the dangerous part)… But it is very unlikely to actually fry the motherboard unless you get a full short happening somewhere as the Motherboard/CPU/PowerSupply and ground plane are generally earthed (which generally means the computer Chassis is as well).

You probably would not want to use this method if you have already earthed your Rig through another method as you can create a Ground loop which could actually make the interference worse. If it is a one direction earthing it is effectively the same as grounding your rig directly to to the chassis of your computer (which generally works as well, just a less direct method).

The Main thing though is to have proper grounding through the entire system (and your house), this eliminates the issue of back voltage that has not been drained properly… BTW this is a danger with connecting anything that is grounded… i.e if you have a kitchen appliance that is grounded to the shell and the mains aren’t grounded properly you can get voltage through the shell of the appliance if it earths (proper ground) in some other method. Same danger Mika is mentioning.

The situation Mika is saying is dangerous would be IF the SimuCUBE were plugged into a Non Earthed plug (No Grounding) and the Computer were plugged into a fully Earthed Plug. The Likelihood of this is small as most of the time we power strip everything or use the same wall outlets for our rigs and computer so it is very unlikely to happen since everything ultimately grounds (or doesn’t) at the same location. If you are to have this happen then you would most likely also be getting this voltage through your whole 80/20 rig since the SimuCUBE generally is Metal to Metal contact with the rig.

#5

Nope, it is to do with the pins connecting on the PCI Express 6pin connector in such random order, that it will indeed induce 48 V in reference to PC USB GND to USB GND, and it will fry the motherboard.

We actually had to eliminate an easy chance of this happening very late in Simucube 2 development - my own PC at work was fried this way. By connecting USB GND to Simucube chassis GND, you negate the protection. The most important thing is to not hot plug the DC power connector to Simucube 2 as that connector is not designed for hot plugging.

#6

Well that is an unfortunate thing with the way that works then in regard to the SC2… So basically with the Simucube 2 it would also then be unsafe for your computer to do the less direct 80/20 frame to computer grounding since in essence the SC2 is Frame Grounded to the 80/20 which would then also be grounded to your Motherboard and processor… hmmmm…

Is it due to the connection timing or that someone can inadvertently force an improper connection?

OK Yea, just did a little learning on the hot-plugging issue and it is sequencing… In essence though it seems to really come down to a DON’T ever hot plug that PCIe6 connector, as depending on how you ground for EMI you can have that issue. You could even have it if you weren’t grounding for EMI and had your computer touching an 80/20 metal -> metal since the SC2 would be attached to the rig…

Hopefully that info is in the manual at least…

#7

May be check with Derek on what is the proper way to ground his controller or pedals manufacturer.
Here’s what Heusinkveld is using with their pedals, worked pretty well.
https://heusinkveld.com/sim-pedals-service-bulletin-3/

#8

You should be able to ground the pedals directly to a Earth Ground or to your computer separate of the 80/20 chassis given the issues above… Generally speaking it is better to ground the source of the EMI leakage but this is not the case, it appears, unless you always remember NOT to hot plug the SimuCUBE.

Grounding the Source with a drain will solve ALL issues of interference otherwise you have to ground each individual effected device.

Again you do have to keep in mind ground loops as those can create other types of interference.

#9

Is this something that can help with emi? A simple grounding cable?

#10

it should if your house is grounded you can tie the components into that grounding… I, don’t think it would it would mitigate the SimuCube issue if you were to tie the 80/20 into it as well, but yea it should work.

#11

Thanks! I have placed it between pedal/plate and the rig. Before I had the PSR1 I frequently had this ugly experience of static charge, which droves me crazy. Always touching a grounded place is something I easily forgot… and I totally hate the result. Can’t stand it. Apart from this I luckily never had any issues with emi and got rid of static charge. There is so much complexity in these products like a Simucube. Compared to that, the amount of problems is really small imo. But if you (I) am the person affected it of course sucks.

#12

Swiss regulations for new house construction:

static charge:
According to DIN 18014, you must install a foundation earth electrode in all new houses

#13

Yea older houses are the issue, especially here in the US though I think everything has been required to have Earth Grounding since the Late 70’s… that is really the important grounding for just about everything.

#14

Thanks for taking the time, sharing the information and let me learn something :pray:

#15

Thanks for all of your help / advice. I am pleased to report that I no longer have issues.

I first ordered a USB isolator - and this reduced the spiking - but there was some still there.

Next I wired some ground wire from the frame of the pedal set to a plug and plugged that into a socket.

I had removed the spiking completely - but it seemed to have latency (or miss a depression). I plugged the isolator in again and hey presto, I have fully functional pedals! Soooo happy!

Right - enough of this forum lark, I have some catching up to do setting up my new Wheel!!

Thanks again!
Phil.

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#16

Where did you put the USB isolator?
between the PC and the pedals or between the PC and the Simucube?

#17

I plugged in into the USB hub and then connected the ferrite cored USB lead into the isolator which come from the pedals

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#18

Spoke too soon - tried to set up for a Iracing session and spiking is back - in fact, I cannot even calibrate the brake pedal properly.

I have earthed the rig as well now - still no improvement.

I am now considering buying another set of pedals - so, can I ask if anyone with ASatek Invicta pedals have had such issues?

Thanks
Phil.

#19

No issues at all but never had issues whit any pedal set since Fanatec CSP V1

#20

I had never had such issues until I changed my wheel base from an OSW DD to a Simucube 2…