Mate i no longer have my own settings for it as i’ve tried so many suggestions from different people which do not give scrub feel that i’ve excepted it now and simply walked away from the game.
Like i said mate unless you can genuinely tell me that you can actually feel scrub and a sense of where traction you’d be the first, otherwise it’s a pointless exercise.
TD settings has no baring on this missing information not being felt in the wheel.
There is no scrub feel, with a SC2 or TX or TS PC RACER, scrub feel is for gamepad in DR2.0.
You only have suspension effect for the main feeling.
the tyre slip effect is greyed out for ALL the wheels, but only for gamepads.
Stop saying you’ve felt more scrub with your TX it’s 100% bullshit.
And I have no issue with the DR2.0 FFB, not the best, but ok for me.
The ONLY WAY to feel the scrub is to use ACCUFORCE v2, with the FFB from the telemetry, the users have reported they are the only one who can feel the scrub.
Tony, i recently realized that wheel and tyre friction are basically like a dampener introducing too much delay…so i suggest turning them to 0 and better use some damping on TD. Also as far as scrub, i wonder how much scrub one can feel in a rally car on gravel or dirt or ice or snow…DR2 in tarmac anyway is practically shit, with the right settings it is just driveable, so yeah this discussion is pointless i think.
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I haven’t read every response of the last few from the last time I posted but noticed that the discussion has com to things felt through the wheel such as vibrations and things like that…
One thing that if you have driven alot of different cars and REALLY, REALLY think about what you feel through the wheel from Road cars to Race Cars is that in many times you actually feel ver little vibration through the wheel Even when running over curbs. Steering feel is actually very much DEAD. but when something big enough is exerted on the tires that wants to alter the slip angle you will then feel it in the wheel… 95% or more of the vibration you feel while driving in real life is through the chassis of the car which emirates from vibration running throught the tires and wheel into the suspension arms, through the mountings of the suspension and the shocks and springs into the chassis and through your backside… Most all of this vibration is filtered out of the steering system by the bushings and rack used in the car and if the car has power or electric steering even less comes through.
This is why using vibration modules and SimVibe/SimHub/or ebven with racing the built in LFE system you can feel that detail in a way that is more realistic…
Vibration in the wheel is normally FFB Artifact or Error, Mechanical slop (gear drives normally), or artificially induced “feel” that would normally NOT be present but because it is a game they put it there.
With iRacing at least you will never actually get enhancement unless you use some third party software with FFB injection because they don’t use Effects. that being said due to the 60Hz refresh rate you can expose the FFB artifacts between refresh points through lower smoothing (Recon 1 or off) and in some cases through certain filtering combinations that allow the wheel to be too active (overshooting intended FFB targets).
Other games do allow FFB enhancements which can be used as well to add this noise.
To reiterate something said above if a game has MinForce with a DD so not use it it will just cover up detail… if you need more center weighting add friction filter. and if you feel the corner are getting too heavy add in a small amount of constant force reduction.
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Thanks @bsohn! For me this is a very good and informative message: when I watch F1 I pay extra attention to find out what causes a driver to be “moved around” and if it’s also to see at the steering wheel. Most of the time it isn’t and the shaking comes from curbs, very rare from track surface. When I once in a while look at the FFB graph while driving cars like RSS, Sim Dream and other open wheelers I can see how detailed and FFB is, much more as one think in general. Again, thanks a lot for sharing this insights!
yea watching real in-car video can definitely help you in seeing th effects… Granted you cannot see the fine details. but if you are driving say a GT3 car in a sim and your hands are jumping back and forth and then you watch it on TV and that is not happening then something is a bit off there…
Now the thing is not to attribute this primarily to strength of your wheel… while that can have some effect on excessive movement, you would be surprised at how strong forces ar in a real race car… (even without the wheel jumping around)… This is why the filters are very important for the DD Wheels because you want to be able to control the forces to allow the strength to be ever present when it needs to tell you something important but NOT trying to tell you everything… when a DD wheel is set up very well it will be pretty easy to drive under high strength situation (even relaxed you might say) BUT then when something get wrong i.e you start to spin, lose traction anywhere, or wreck… it will tell you immediately and definitively (sometimes unfortunately violently) that something is NOT how it should be… This is where the car is doing the talking to you and you should listen. It is very hard to get those settings… My Settings are floating around here and they aren’t directly put on Paddock (as I don’t use that). I say directly because they are probably on there under others names by now. where I have tried to get the SC2 Pro as realistic as possible with a Touch of noise for grounding and immersion. I typically run strength levels that are REAL to cars of similar nature in iRacing mainly that I have had experience with in real life and I let all the other cars in iRacing fall into place as iRacing places all of the calculated wheel strengths for all their cars in the same universe… (meaning they are all in the same scope or window)
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I am driving only open wheelers in whatever game/simulation I have. For me it’s not about full torque per se, but more to have a very detailed FFB through the whole bandwidth. So I can feel the moment I am about to loose the car very clear and early.
AC and RRE have an FFB I prefer over AMS2/R2f.
From time to time I use a headset, just to enjoy the sensation. FFB ain’t that important then.
What I also love is rally: RBR and WRC 9/10. These titles don’t need a lot of torque anyway. I do use constant force reduction in rally. I have a detailed FFB but not a force difficult to fight against in long and fast corners.
I tried all filters, wanted to know what they do:
Damping and friction make me feel blunt, though, stiff…the wheel feels like it’s constricted. I adjust torque, recon off or 1, unlimited, that’s it. I understand that GT cars are very different. As much I love them in real life I “hate” them in simracing.
It’s very nice and helpful to get insights from such an experienced racer. It’s something one can’t buy! And something I can use to get faster. Again, thanks a lot
If you really love rally (simulator not a game) try Richard Burns Rally + mods, is for free, easy to install, we have now 720Hz physics rate update (!) and a lot of great mods, FFB is very good with DD wheel (SimuCube 1 + Kollmorgen AKM53). DR, DR2, WRC9,10…etc are games for young guys with pads rather not the wheel, not rally simulators at all, cars physics are not good unfortunately. Here is the RBR (RSF) link if you want to try: https://rallysimfans.hu/rbr/index.php
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Many thanks for the suggestion Mirek
Is this due to DirectInput Filters being buggy on Simucubes? And you have them disabled anyway. I wonder if extra detail is coming from those. Every other wheel I’ve tried supports DirectInput Filters except Simucube. I’d like to see them fixed.
First of all I know exactly what you talk about Richard I had the exact same experience when I upgraded to a Simucube nearly 7 years ago from another brand not a TC. The lack of details, small forces coming from tyre slip and road texture. I’m on iRacing mainly but the difference in details from having it to not having it is night and day and it’s driving me nuts to not have it. Unfortunately I still haven’t manage to get them even after 7 years.
Some of the details may be what some of you call dirt, but defiantly not all of them and not having the right ones even with a small amount of dirt is way better than not having them at all, It just feels wrong without them.
You feel way more through the steering wheel in a real car then what you think, even if those vibrations are dampen they are still coming through. So saying that a steering wheel in a real car is dead is not 100% accurate. The steering rack is connected to the wheels as well, so all the vibration you get from the tyres are also transmitted to the steering rack. Most of what you feel in the pants or your back is coming from the rear tyres. What’s coming from the front tyres you feel it in the steering wheel way before you feel it in your pants because of shorter distance to travel and less weight to over come.
It’s true that the bushings, links and power steering dampens the vibrations in you every day car. In a race car it is actual the opposite, you have wider tyres meaning a bigger contact patch, stiffer bushings and links, the steering lock to lock is smaller, as well as the rim. All this together means less damping which makes it even easier to feel the vibrations in the steering wheel.
Regarding butt-kickers some of those vibrations you have in the steering wheel you can’t replicate it with butt-kickers. As an example tyre lock up, what happens in a real car is you lose some of the vibration when a tyre locks up and that’s what helps you to feel it in the steering wheel. iRacing have the lock up in the steering wheel but because of lack of other forces (vibrations) it’s difficult to feel it. So adding vibrations to simulate a lock up with a butt-kicker is not the right way to do it.
Some day we will have the right forces in the wheel. Once you have experienced it you will never be without it again.
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Unless you are running 1:1 power output with iRacing you will never get the full detail at real to model levels… I would say you are always going to be lacking some of those details you want to have if you ar running anything less than .4:1 specific output which is 40% of telemetry or on a SCSport approx 42.5Nm Max Force 100% True Drive power… and then to get what I feel is realistic levels are around .6:1 which is approx. 29Nm Max Force 100% True Drive (you will probably clip with some cars at these settings)… The reason is iRacing is all Attenuated % based on the 100% telemetry coming from the wheel so Very Low level vibrations than come through the wheel get completely lost and are not of an amplitude to be felt at lower force levels.
To make point of what you mention about Dead as it is in reference to my posts, When I say Dead I am referring to the fact that road forces will not generally cause the wheel to move at all which is part of the reason why you can remove your hands from the wheel. Yes some vibrations and senses come through the wheel but with a sim you need to turn up the Specific output to feel those as most people run the wheels at lower than real levels (mainly because they are used to their road car forces) or the wheels are seat to Active and they start to get beat up by them (Hence the dead comments) the FFB wheels have to be deadened or the information provided is exaggerated and at higher powers which give you all of the information that activeness causes fatigue and a covering up of all the information you actually WANT to feel, So you have to deaden the wheel in order to gain back those minute details…
Power steering on cars “any car” race or road also severely diminishes road and tire feel through the steering and then something like BMW’s electric steering gets rid of it completely in the mechanical sense.
BTW you feel as much of the front through the seat of your pants as the car as all the dynamics of the road are carried through all four points of suspension attachment to the chassis.
With lock-ups you feel it first through the brake pedal then you tend to hear a tire howl difference, then you feel a transition of weight in the car, then IF you try to turn the wheel you feel the wheel tend to get lighter. The vibration, if you feel any through the wheel at all is the scrub of the tread which in a race car with slicks tends to turn into almost no vibration since there is nothing gripping. When you speak of ABS all of this still applies EXCEPT you “may” feel a force pulsation through the wheel when turning as the tires lock and unlock but generally speaking the ABS is too fast for you to actually feel this through the wheel (more likely to feel it through the brake pedal) and you will just feel a little more road texture, again, if any depending on the car steering makeup. Though you will generally get more force through the wheel as you will have grip to turn.
Because they can’t overcome most wheels built in internal resistance to start with. A higher ratio will not help with this because everything is lowered/amplified equally. It will only require you to add more filters to deaden the wheel even more, which adds to the resistance. Making it even harder for those small details to come through. Giving you a moment 22. Those small details are in the first 50-55% of the telemetry and most of them in the first 5%. Thanks to SC very low built in resistance and high sensitivity the ratio is not the real issue. I can feel those small vibrations off track (from texture) even with a very low ratio (it’s actually easier) but not on track. There are other things that we can’t tune out enough (activeness), preventing us from feeling it properly especially on track.
And what happened to that BMW, it was returned to sender because buyers complaining about not being able to feel enough through the steering wheel. We are dependent on those small vibrations in the steering wheel and the feedback it provides, regardless if we are aware of it or not. Take it away like BMW did and the car feels very difficult and dangerous to drive.
Read it again. I didn’t said they weren’t but that doesn’t mean that you can actually feel them in your pants. Please stop pretend like you can only feel it in the pants. Those small vibrations are much harder to feel in our pants compered to the steering wheel. There are several reasons for it, how our body works when it comes to sense things is one of them.
Lock ups read it again, all I said was you loose some of the vibrations in the steering wheel and that’s how you feel it in the steering wheel, I didn’t say anything about the rest of the car.
P.s screaming to make your point, will do you no good.
Here is the problem, way to much activity in the wheel going in a straight line so I can’t feel anything except from a lot of shaking and overall ugliness, it’s smooth though but feels ugly. I can’t get rid of that activity in the wheel not even with some extreme settings. TBW 100Hz, Recon 10, Friction 100%, slew rate 0.1 and 17Nm in TD and 63Nm in iRacing even with a lower ratio it’s still there I can’t get rid of it.
Car track combo doesn’t matter it’s the same in all cars. More torque makes it worse lower slightly better but it doesn’t stop it. I have the exact same issue with both my SC 1 and 2. It has been like this since I first got my SC1 7+ years ago and they have cost me more than 3000 Euro in total, and I can’t use them.
My settings
TD
Overall strength 17Nm
Recon 5 (tried them all)
Torque bandwidth 3300Hz (tried them all)
Damping 0% (adding makes it worse)
Friction 12-18% (tried it at 100%)
Inertia 0%
Slew rate 1.0 (tried 0.1)
iRacing
Max force 63
Wheel force 17
The result is that you stopped the wheel from spinning at all. That is, with all my respect, total nonsense.
That was what I expected as well, but it didn’t. Unfortunately it doesn’t allow me to upload a video here 
It doesn’t stop it completely as the filters are actually limited in % of the final signal you are able to use, Though what you see is 1-100% what you are actually controlling may be something like 1 - 20%
I guessed so and it seems to be the same for all filters even if they are showing 100% in TD, because non of the filters can reach it enough. If that is good or not I don’t know.
It drive me nuts though to not be able to tune it down more though.
I wish we had something like the Moza software so we could tune the frequency of the signal.
If that is the actual in signal or the out signal I don’t know but they can tune the frequencies.
“Because they can’t overcome…” –
What you are blaming on iRacing should actually be blamed on the wheel but I also don’t believe the wheel is the issue… iRacing just gives information at the level appropriate with the car model being driven… If you are not running the iRacing output High enough to actually overcome a wheels static inertia then that is honestly not iRacing fault, or even really the wheels fault…
Sure I will say that some of the track detail or Grounding feel is dependent on the track itself and the scan so depending upon the resolution used more or less texture will be scanned. But this changes Track to track. Tire Model can also change this as well.
“Read it again. I didn’t said they…” -
what you get through the wheel is what I call grounding vibrations… these vibrations give you a sense of where the road surface is but don’t really give you a ton of detail about how the tires are really reacting to the ground. though yes they do change in relation to that… Most of the actual sense of car comes through the chassis vibration and In real life Physical roll of the chassis around its CG. That is all physical effect that is almost impossible to reproduce in the sim as all we have for the most part is Eyesight orientation.
BTW… it is not screaming it is Emphasis… Screaming is all CAPS ALL THE TIME…
… Onto the next message … Your settings …
Overall strength is OK.
Recon 5 is a decent setting but if you want more of that grounding feel in the wheel you need to be lower probably down in the 1-3 range. this allows more vibration to come through. The higher numbers smooth out many of the minor movements in the wheel:
TBW - is OK at 3300Hz… I suggest Unlimited though generally anything above 2200 works well… Unlimited allows a slight bit more of that fine vibration to come through the wheel.
Damping - You have set WAY to little Damping is to slow the wheel at the end of a movement help keeping it form overshooting the designated endpoint allowing it to change direction without as much error. this helps make the wheel feel more precise when set correctly… To little Damping and the wheel overshoots and feels overly active, to much and the wheel will feel a bit sluggish and dull.
Friction - Probably WAY to much for what you are after as far as feel… Friction just Weights the wheel but in weighting the wheel you have the issue that you FIRST talked about above where you feel the game cannot overcome the inertia of the wheel… Essentially you have added a crap tom of inertia to the wheel which cannot be overcome… so it is a self fulfilling prophesy here… essentially you have caused a loss in the information you want…
Inertia - you would probably benefit from a little inertia… this keeps the wheel moving in the direction of a signal but slows in the presence of an opposite signal… this helps alleviate Oscillations but will also help make the wheel feel more active but not out of control (unless too much is added)
Slew rate - Probably too low here as well Slew slows the wheel, so if you slow too much it effectively acts as smoothing… slowing too much will cause fine quick details to disappear as the wheel never accelerates fast enough for you to actually feel them… you should probably be over 3Nm/sec or depending on how active you want things to be even faster.
Specific output - right now you are running a specific output of .269:1 (17Nm/63Nm MAX FORCE) - this specific ration is what i would feel is on the lower side to actually feel all the detail that you are wanting. Basically you are running the iRacing telemetry turned down to 27% output and then Heavily filtering that output (smoothing wise) so the already Low amplitude output you have coming from iRacing is getting even more reduced even further.
Generally speaking .40 - .45 is a good Specific output to be at but some do have to work up to that strength and change their driving style to a more realistic les sim like style…
Basically the settings you have shown and the experiments you have done to get what you want are sort of completely opposite what should be done in order to attempt to get what you are looking for as Low TBW causes Latency and over smoothing, High Recon can do the same, Low Slew Causes smoothing… No damping Causes Activeness, High Friction causes Smoothing… so basically you seem to have smoothed out to the point of no small amplitude signaling getting through the systems…
In otherwords you are definitely OVER filtered…
I know that those settings are way over filtered and are by no means any good but I was keen on trying something different and to be honest it felt worse 
I have tried all settings from 0 to 100% and as I said they can’t stop the activity in the wheel.
I have even tried to use only the center spring or just a bit of friction with no FFB at all. Name it and I can most certainly say that I have tried it
I have tried all ratios from .05 - 1:1 and around .25-0.30 feel the best for me without being beaten up by it in longer races as you said earlier
I’m normally on recon 1-2 with much lower friction around 5% and a tad of damping like 2-4% with a slightly lower ratio around .24-.25. and no Inertia. Slew rate around 1-1.7. and tbw unlimited
I will try what you suggest and see if I can handle a higher ratio
Thanks.