For me is a feeling and car dependant. Some cars needs to clip forces more than others.
If you are focused on eliminate the Red Bar, you are doing it wrong. The red bar tells you when the suspension (rack or whatever iR is simulating) reached its full deflection, so you need to find the sweet spot where the Red Bar tells you what you want.
Some cars always clip forces at any point of the track, whatever the forces you put on iR, so here is when tryting to eliminate the Red Bar leads you to unbalance the forces between grip&bumps
Pop culture I guess…
The truth is clipping is a no go when in a long banked turn if you maintain the Red Bar, but clipping is your friend when in Eau Rouge you are near Orange Bar and touching the kerbs spikes to Red Bar in a nice way
You are using iRFFb so you can try it very easy.
Make stints of 5 laps and look at iRFFb, % of clipping forces is telling you at the end of the stint.
Take 3 goals:
1- Adjust iRFFb forces to achieve 5% clipping at the end of the stint
2- Adjust iRFFb forces to achieve 2.5% clipping at the end of the stint
3- Adjust iRFFb forces to achieve 0.1-0% clipping at the end of the stint
Choose what you want!
If you dont feel anything in those test, aim at 10% clipping at the end of the stint
In my example you are in search of clipping point by your feeling, not by the number shown.
You can race with 5% clipping signal at the end of the stint and you probably doesnt feel clipping at all. 5% of a 100s lap = 5s during a lap
This is not bad, from a 1m40s lap, you reach 100% forces during 5s only, may be during bumps, kerbs, weight transfers, etc… Some people can feel that 5% more than others so they tend to clip less than 2% of the iRFFb forces, others cant feel clipping under 10%… Its a matter of feeling
AUTO button works in every scenario, but “wheel force” slider is the limit.
First, true drivers knows that 1:1 scale is unreal, so if “wheel force” is set to 25Nm (SC2 Pro Max force), you push AUTO buton and iR calculates that 30Nm is the correct way to feel the car (good balance between grip&bumps), then you are near that unreal 1:1 ffb relation.
Thats the normal case, so you have 2 options to aleviate that 1:1 ffb:
Less FFb at the base or at the game. The famous 2 methods to determinate ffb on iRacing.
Less ffb in the servo is what i do, so I maintain iRacing ffb calcs with iR @30Nm and I am lowering TD Overall Strength little by little (my ffb relation is 1:0.25 aprox.) Then modify iRacing “Wheel force” to match TD Overall strength.
Other way arround is maintain TD Overall Strength and go lowerin iR ffb. i dont like that way because you may end with too much cornering forces and bumps but no grip at all, that later you have to mask with filters like friction and damping, recon, etc…
About “Wheel force” slñider… I was very happy one year ago when that stupid slider did not exist.
If you race the MX5, and set Wheel force to 25Nm (SC2 Pro full strength) you will not be able to access what iR determines to be the optimal FFB for that car.
Actually it doesn’t, It Initializes the function due to some experimental stuff David Tucker was working on (but never finished, If I remember it didn’t work how he intended), BUT it never actually uses the Direct Input Damping Function.
Auto button - Sets the the Max Force to the strength level that the game sees for YOU driving around that track in that car in the manner that you did to set the auto so it places a baseline to get ALMOST full fidelity… It lops off the top 1 or 2% of telemetry for its determination so it can be just a tad low to acquire full fidelity… As well if on the lap after setting you go out and drive the car harder you could still clip… so the general recommendation is to add 3-5Nm to the number set by Auto so that you DONT have to reset things every time you go to a track.
So yes if you have the SC2 Pro at 25 and you get 30 on the slider you are close to 1:1 (.834:1 actual) However Iracing is ONLY setting for the point where you get very close to maximum fidelity… This means that any setting above this point (so 30Nm+) will give you full telemetry fidelity… just that iRacing will not clip telemetry that goes above that 30Nm. So in other words “auto” just tells you the minimum Max force number for that Car/Track/Driver combination.
1:1 is a weird thing with iRacing as while it has been shown to accurate to telemetry. in reality it does tend to feel overly strong, which personally I belive is NOT due to racing itself but just the nature of the way FFB works in that it is always trying to correct forces. Hence why a lot of Motor sport QR’s are not suitable for SimRacing because they get more wear than normal. Personally I find around .6:1 to be most realistic BUT there are some cases where that can feel weak and some cases where it feels strong… But some of it feeling strong is due to me being weak for the car.
As far as your explanation of what to do you are a little backwards I think on the explanation:
To reduce from being close to 1:1 you can do either of these two things -
#1 - Lower true drive strength Leaving your iRacing or irFFB Max Strength or “auto” setting where it is… This lowers the hits that you take from the wheel as you are lowering the max force it can put out so based on the 25/30 above… if you turn down TireDrive to 50% you have lowered your wheel output to 12.5Nm, Leaving the Max Force at 30 maintians full fidelity output from iRacing and reduces your at the wheel strength to a .417:1 specific output or 50% of its prior level.
#2 - Would be to leave your TureDrive Setting at 100% or 25Nm and then increase your Max force to 60Nm… By doing this you are allowing the servo to have all the headroom to reproduce and detail that happens above the iRacing “auto” setting. This however also means that if you crash and hit a wall you will get hit with 25Nm rather than 12.5 as you would with option #1. HOWEVER, this method effectively does the same thing as Option 1 in that by increasing the iRacing Telemetry output you effectively reduce strength so this is a 25/60 ratio which is also .417:1 Specific output… or the Same at the Wheel Strength as Option #1.
The Bigger benefit to option #2 is that you can set-it and forget it which is much as I or Beano does in why we say there is no need for AUTO. because 95% of the cars only have telemetry that will reach 65Nm setting to the example in option 2 with a 60Nm or above means you will NEVER have to really worry about clipping EVER and you can jump from car to car, Track to Track and just feel the Telemetry differences form the cars themelves which is one of the areas where iRacing shines as the cars are so different.
There is actually a option 1/2 which is variable… in that you can do anything in-between option # 1 or 2 in that you can say I want to reduce the forces I get hit with to 15Nm, but I like the at the wheel Strength I get with .417:1 so that would mean that I can figure that my MAX Force setting should be 36Nm by dividing 15Nm ( 60% in true drive ) by the specific output wanted.
On the wheel force slider note at the end there is no issue with that unless you liked overdriven forces as if you set the wheel force to 25 and TD at 100% then with the miata it would set at 25 or 1:1 since the miata only really ever puts out 15Nm… The issue is though that IF you change TD strength you NEED to also alter your Wheel Force for it to work properly so if you use TD at 50% (12.5Nm) then you will need to alter your Wheelforce slider to 12.5Nm (not 25) and then auto will set for about 15 which is still fairly high at .834:1 but it will then go lower than 1:1…
In the end though IF you understand when you are overdriving the telemetry you don’t even need to set the Wheel Force and could leave it at 1. But there is a nice side effect of using it when you are running higher Max Force in that it changes the fineness of the numbers you can make settings to on the Max Force Slider.
First, thanks for the detailed answer ! Its really helpful. Can you say im right understand what you advice.
I have SC2 Sport, and im trying find good FFB settings for all cars. For example, McLaren Gt3, feels good when i set 11.1nm in TrueDrive, and set auto FFB in iracing its 24nm. So im check wheel torque telemetry in motec, and find what average FFB for this car near 13-25nm, with peaks to 28-30nm. If i can translate right what you write, i need set ffb in iracing to auto its means 24, after it add plus 3-5nm ? Right ? And make same steps for each car ? Or sometimes i need change Truedrive ffb ? O_o 11.1nm in peaks are good for me, and comfotable to drive 3h+ in a row. Thanks for future answer.
So if you are checking Motec for telemetry Maximums you have the number that you should set the iRacing Max Force too… that being 30Nm if you are seeing normal running spikes to 30Nm. The Average only really tells you how spiky the spikes in feedback are.
If you notice auto set to 24 which means it was removing some of the top level spikes and allowing them to clip rather than be reproduced with the natural rolloff of the wheel. adding 3-5 Nm would almost get you to the 30 that it probably should be at minimally.
The answer is YES that you would do this for each car IF you want to have the same style feedback levels for every car you drive… i.e mitigating car strength differences…
If you want it as a set it and forget it sort of setting then you would instead say OK I like how this car that I drive most feels at 11.1 Nm and 24 in tracing… that is .463:1 so I want full telemetry I need the Max Force to be at 30Nm. so set 30Nm on Max Force and then multiply 30Nm by .463 which means you should have true drive set to 13.9Nm to feel the same at the wheel BUT get full telemetry.
Now when you switch cars and want to feel their differences… i.e. the Miata is much easier to steer than the McLaren, and the F488 is harder to turn than the McLaren then you would just want to make sure that the Max Force Number is Larger than the output telemetry and your specific output is the same…
So Example - You go to the Miata you don’t need to change anything the Miata doesn’t put out telemetry over 30Nm. But say you want to run the F488 that will need about 45Nm to get full telemetry recreation … so 45 x .463 = 20.835. Unfortunately the Sport will not achieve these levels so you would just need to run the wheel at 100% 17Nm and live with either clipping of the signal to get your strength at the wheel OR a Lower strength at the wheel of .3778:1…
My suggestion because you are running a high average at the wheel strength level is to just let the servo run at 100% True Drive, You may have to get used to some jolts when running curbs or crashing when using lower strength cars. You can set the iRacing Max Force to 36.7 (or as close as you can get) and you will have the specific output you want at as much telemetry iRacing can provide for you wheel without clipping. That will cover Most GT cars comfortably. (even the F488 should be decent but on the edge with that number. The M8 however might not be so good but because of the strength of that car you might want to turn it down even from your number… Which you would do so NOT in True Drive but by Raising the Nm in iRacing which lowers the Specific output.
Except for cars without power steering (high downforce indycars and V8 Supercars), the iRacing FFB telemetry is just so wrong for most of the cars, that looking at the specific output Nm value is quite pointless.
We have data from factory GTE driver - the FFB level in corners is around 7-9 Nm depending on track, and the spikes in all current real life simulators such as iRacing and rFactor2 are very unrealistic. They do not simulate power steering effects and the values shown in telemetry are probably just an artifact that comes from their physics engine, with probably some magic values to get them in some sensible range (<100 Nm).