Well my subjective feel having had both units back to back is that the SC2 is at least if not faster than the podium.
Also even when powered off the sc2 has hardly any resistance whatsoever and is completely smooth to my feel. the podium you can feel the magnets/coils if you concentrate on it.
Regardless both units are probably capable of producing ffb so fast that it would actually be unrealistic for a car anyway. There are certainly a few things I miss on the Podium base, but ffb speed, strength and quality is certainly not one of them.
Guysā¦ It is not about the top speed but it is how fast it gets to the commanded torqueā¦ its accelerationā¦ The Fanatec accelerates quite a bit faster and does not not really have filtering to help slow this making it a more active and abrupt system when compared with the SimuCUBEā¦ Both wheels are FAST and in pure speed the SC2 is probably actually faster from the nature of the motors as out-runners tend to be High torque low RPM units. The SC2 has the Wonderful Torque Skew adjustment which in all reality is needed desperately on the Fanatec. That particular control allows the adjustment of the acceleration and allows you to easily tame the wheel without much loss of anything.
Granted there is no direct proof on the devices themselves without having all of the pertinent measuring equipment and being able to override the control systems and get into full tuning so you can supply the exact signals you want (as you can with the SimuCUBE SC1ās) but in the end it does all come back to the feeling it gives and how it feeds that to you the driverā¦
By the Nature of the types of servos used the acceleration factor is in the design of the servos as Outrunners servos have a much more substantial initial torque moment due to the initial magnetic field created by designā¦ This in turn leads to a quicker torque application and intern faster acceleration and a more active feel to the wheel as it can change direction more abruptly (due to both torque application and weight).
The way the systems work in the wheels is just to be given a torque moment and then try to reach that torque as fas as possibleā¦ Though it can be done internally (i.e the Torque Skew Filter) acceleration of the servo is not a controlled point of FFB, in reality to give consistent feedback across devices it should be.
The subjective feelings that I have are based on significant testing of different systems including different servos types on the same SC1 controller so I can confidently attest to the basic nature differences in the feel they provide and how they go about doing it. As well only semi related but dealing with the design of Small motors for R/C cars for Many, Many, years there are significant parallels to what we are doing here when it comes to motor design as the attributes they provideā¦ i.e in r/c car modified motors you can have just about any number of winds, wire size, poles, ectā¦ and each winding (even though all are in the same case) will have significantly different attributes on track) i.e high wind smaller wire diameter motors produce much more Low End torque (due to a larger magnetic field created) and accelerate faster than a Low Wind large Diameter Motor BUT the later will create much more top end speed than the former due to weightā¦
So in the end MOST of the feel comes from the basic Motor design then secondary if the filtering is good enough then you can control that servo however as I believe I mentioned earlier depending on the servo there may be only so far you can go in actually tuning it before causing it to become over filtered.
And yet itās a custom motor with certain design considerations that may impact typical benefits. Itās strange that if there was an easy win for their marketing department on torque slew rate why it wasnāt takenā¦
Because the DD1 and DD2 is actually about a 3-4 year old design now if you consider initial development timeā¦ A lot of the realities and what is needed for DD Wheels is still being learnedā¦ It took a while to figure out that as fast as can be is NOT really the best with regard to feel at the wheel and it required back to back testing with different servos to really understand the differencesā¦
Fanatec does have an opportunity to work on their filtering and tame the servo a bit more with acceleration control and a few other thingsā¦ The Early released DD1/2 didnāt even have an inertia filter which has proven to be a great filter for combatting oscillations due to its dual effect nature when used in a FFB environmentā¦ They also didnāt have inputt smoothing until just recently. Again needed to allow people to fine tune the feel they get at the wheel and is more important the more active the wheel gets.
In the end though each company will go the direction that they feel best in pursuingā¦ The one good thing about the SimuCUBE is from its beginnings with the SC1 it has been widely able to be adjusted and with the SC1 because it was ONLY a controller and not a complete system there was a lot of opportunity to test different types and style servos on a common drive system which of course provides a bunch of information about how they react and provide feedbackā¦
There is a significantly wide range of at the wheel feel that can be had JUST due to the servo choice made.
Hi guys iām Adrian and i live in Indonesia so apologize if my english not good enough.
I hope someone can help me to decide.
I am using Fanatec csl elite and Fanatec v3Inverted pedals since 2017 on PS4, the game i played the most is F1 and Dirt Rally. Now i want to upgrade my kit, iām trying to find the best realistic simracing kit out there so iām looking to upgrade my wheelbase to SC2 pro and of course i have to use PC as well. May you guys please give me your opinion and advice. Is it worth for me to do that ? And is it complicated or not for the guy like me who try to switch from PS4 to PC ? In my mind, using PC are much more harder/complicated rather than PS4.
Thank you in advance guys. Hopefully someone can help me.
I wouldnt hold my breathe with Fanatec Software developmentā¦ I waited 18 monthsā¦ EVERY driver they release was a complete mess in different ways. You would update each time with your eyes closed and holding your breathe that it didnt brick something.
I had a full windows reinstall on one after hours of troubleshooting to bring it back to life. And still bugs, freezes and knocks.
I mean to this day the OLED screen is useless as fanatec themselves say you must leave it on the logo screen to stop random ffb knocks and not use any of the telemetry. they are working on a fix but its been over a year now. HOW?
I actually LOVE the hardwareā¦ I think the base looks great, and imo better than the simucube but their software drivers are just horrific. Eventually they will get there though Iām sureā¦ and the next base they bring out will be the one you will want. As a day 1 Podium owner though i just felt like a beta tester in allot of ways.
You should as @maviaggi said switch to using the PC first and then upgradeā¦ The wheel that you have will work on the PC so it shouldnāt be too hard but it will be more about getting used to the way the PC works and the programs used. It isnāt hard but it also isnāt quite as simple as the turn it on and it runs situation of the PS4ā¦ Once you have everything working and have gotten used to it (may only take you a couple days to get to that point) then continue your journey with upgradingā¦ For realism I would suggest the SC2 as far as the wheel characteristics.
Actually that is one of the hard things I have had with the Fanatecās and I was in the early Beta program since NOV 2018ā¦ The Nature is Fanatec but the system relies on alot of driver influence which leaved the door wide open for things to be broken inadvertently. this is different from pretty much every other direct drive wheel out there which do most of their processing onboard the device itself which eliminates pretty much all driver interaction except for the most basic USBSerial and HID. Granted having alot of stuff offloaded to the PC allows for a brunt of processing power if needed but it also causes odd things at timesā¦ I generally donāt like to have other programs running in the background which to get many of the Fanatec NEW features and filters you must do as they are in the FanaLab software package rather than built into the firmwareā¦ This is in position to something like the SC2 which has all the filters onboardā¦ The one thing that Fanatec has right over the SC2 is that you can enable High Torque mode without having to open anythingā¦ This is one of my irritants with the SC2 (though Small) but it is just because of the way I do stuff in that I am used to turning the thing on and going straight into iRacingā¦ Now if I forget to open True Drive I have to back all the way back out of iRacing to enable torqueā¦ anyway each thing has its user quirks but yes Fanatec is a bit slow to get things moving on filtering so I am expecting it to stay quite active for some timeā¦ It was almost a Year before the INT and NIN filters came to the wheels.
I have that but it is the actuall having to OPEN TD every time that I donāt normally do as I donāt mess with settings (well unless I need to or am testing) ā¦ I guess I could set it to start up with the computer but I havenāt gotten around to doing thatā¦ Im used to just turning it on and being ready to go or as in the Fanatecās case just turning the wheel 90 degrees and waiting for it to beep with no software having to be opened at all.
Different things are irritants to different people and this one is just a bit of an inconvenience irritant for meā¦ I guess it is sort of like I jump in my real car turn it on and am ready to goā¦ donāt have to press any buttons to enable features (though some real cars out there do now :-))
In its essence, servo motor, no matter if it is inrunner or outrunner, is just a shaft, bearings, magnets, some iron, copper coils and a feedback device to make it closed loop system with the servo drive. There is no āsmartā about a motor and the motor itself (other than the built in imperfections that it may have and are not compensated with the servo drive) does not affect actual feedback. Good, linear ffb designs have linear torque output, in these the system is able to produce linear torque in the needed speed range.
If initial stall torque (meaning slow speed torque) is higher in some systems, that is a result of some filters that alters the ffb signal so that low speed has actually higher commanded torque by the servo drive or alternatively some filter to lower the torque output as a function of speed. It is also possible that bemf of the motor reduces the torque as a function of rotational speed (this is a natural effect of the motor itself), but unlikely to have such reported āsteepā effect.
EDIT: When I said basic motor design I probably should have removed ābasicā as it comes down to motor specifications and the design of the motor used. I should have said Base motor design.
Right but what you are saying here is that the the Controller has to be tuned to get that fully linear effectā¦ In testing there are significant feel differences between servos becasueof all the differences in winds, weights, Magnet numbers, type, ectā¦ which is why the differences come into play and the way they deliver the torqueā¦ If there were not Granite wouldnāt have touted the Servo Showdown (which I donāt think the results were ever posted) but Im sure was part of the procedure to find that Servo that you wanted to use for the SC2ā¦ Using a Small Mige, Large Mige, 52G, 54G, 54F, 65K, 73L all produce differing at the wheel feel when run off of the SAME SimuCUBE SC1 controllerā¦
So unless tuned to be a certain way there is a HUGE end feel factor in the different servos usedā¦ However, like you said if Tuned right all of these differences can be controlled and linear but that comes down tot the drive controller and filteringā¦
Yes the motor itself has no smarts to be able to say oh this is happening so I need to do thisā¦ But the basic nature of the design of the servo, Winds, Poles, Magnets, Number of Magnets, Size, Build type. all have differing effects on the end feel it is jus like a difference in have a V4, V4turbo, V6, V8, V12 in your carā¦ they all can be tuned to do certain things (and sometimes tuned beyond usability) but they all also have a natural way of doing it, Just as the different servos doā¦
