Anyway, we’ll wait for the reviews and if it’s really excellent, I mean, the best, we’re going to work hard to save money and buy it.
For me it works like this.
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We live in a time where new vehicles can have 100k mark up over retail and still sell out 1-2 years ahead of production, so I won’t be surprised if sales of these pedals are successful for the company.
Speaking of regrets, it might be interesting to do a poll based around sim-racing hardware purchase regrets. 
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I wouldn’t call Simucube 2 owners “average” sim racers, usually this is group that have means to pay for expensive toys and have full dedicated sim rig with some high end pedals.
At current price ActivePedals are for pro, not consumer market, crop within a crop.
May be next iteration with compact and slicker design (no sticking out wires) will be cheaper or even Simucube sell IP to some other manufacturer to build cheaper on a larger scale (Asetek?), right now it’s more like luxurious proof of concept, like first plasma TVs.
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Showcasing from SimExpo
Thanks Tommi, your feedback has always been appreciated.
Of course you guys are entitled but also responsible for the opportunities you decide to pursuit, there is no question about that. As a simple user I was just wandering if such a niche and expensive product can be indeed profitable. For sure i would expect that you must have done your research and concluded to go ahead, as well as for the pricing setting which essentially determines the target group. Officially we are really not aware on the software side. Yes it has been said in some discussions that some parts of the software might be used for SC2, but nothing specifically on what and when. Maybe it would be beneficial for Simucube to share more info on that, it would put a lot of people at ease and get them excited.
Great to hear on the sales bump! Don’t get me wrong nobody here wants you to fail as company or lose to the competition, on the contrary we wish you to grow and become stronger and bigger so that you can provide us with better products, better software, etc. It will be to our benefit. This is the reason maybe why we suggest things or even make some criticism. As far as the reliability, values, support, etc. there is no disagreement to what you say. I own an SC2pro and followed this forum since 2019, so i know well that this is the case.
Well that was my point mainly, since the majority of your sales is from wheelbases, then maybe it would be advisable to primarily invest and develop (at least on the software side) your cash cow and in essence what put you in the lead, so that to ensure continue being there. Also, yes most people, including myself indeed do not want to sell our Simucubes. We have seen at least until recently many cases of people selling their wheels to move to Simucube…We basically want to hold on to our SCs for as long as we can, but the issue there is that there must be some development on the software side. For example, if tomorrow a competitor brought a decent wheel with a good software lets say based on telemetry, it would make me think if i have to move over.
Another threat seems to be the compatibility where Simucube cannot work with a few sims/games or even devices such as Ras1ution 2 (to be used for example for emulation to PS5). Yes, Forza is an arcady title (i personally dont care about it), but there are quite a few people making an issue about it. For me, Simucube shines in 2-3 titles, while in others it is okish (it might be the issue of the titles themselves, that is where a telemetry FFB would give the edge) and in some it is not compatible. This at the end of the day might be a serious limitation if competitors can provide products (even of a bit lesser quality) that can be all rounders.
As for the active pedals, i hope they will be a win for Simucube so that in few years a more affordable solution may be available. All the best!
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Yes, it is unlikely that a beginner or consumers buy these, typical buyer can be prosumer or an actual professional who needs it.
Pretty much only way to make it cheaper is to downgrade certain parts either on their ability to create and/or measure forces or use lower quality components and it would definately not be all in all on the same performance level after that. It is not trivial to create clear/transparent force feedback sensation, active electrical spring so to speak with components that are not ideal because mechanical (or electrical) imperfections would influence on the force feedback control loop that is built inside of the product.
Also, in my opinion there seems to be some sort of missunderstanding of our ability to produce and offer good value to the customers, if I understood the notion correctly. The corners that are cut on some lower cost products from some other brands are noticeable (but they serve other customer segment and those cut corners don’t bother them so it is fine for the customers and producers). There is also a well thought out reason why we don’t make lower cost / lower performing products, it is not in our product philosophy. We want to make the best products for the market in a market segment that we choose. We don’t think that the market segment deserves a product below the bar we set, (at least not from us). When you have a product that is on similar performance level than forexample our wheelbases are, those are typically quite similarly prized, but if those aren’t, you probably will notice it somewhere down the line that what you didn’t pay for. Such as smoothness, performance, product reliability and product software support or actual product / warranty support.
It is not that we don’t have the knowledge and we could not make the products where the corners are cut and (the price is low) in our opinion, but it is because we do not want to.
I (highly) doubt that we are selling / offering any of the IP to any party. Also it takes years from other companies to develop a similar product. I can also say that we have a list of patents pending for this technology which after accepted, we will defend if someone commercially aims to infringe our immeterial property rights. It was not a short journey to create and perfect the product performance of this product to this level and we will ofcourse continue to improve it from where it is today.
Sounds a bit rough to call it as POC product, but anyways, it is fully a product that follows our design principles, “form follows function”.
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tell me I have the money to buy a Fanatec DD2 and Fanatec ecosystem, is it a good idea for playing with all the games, like Forza Horizon5, Dirt5…or Should I wait for the new Thrustmaster t818 DD ?
Fanatec DD wheels have Compatibility mode to make it appear as CSW 2.5 to the titles that do not support DD natively.
Asetek showcased something interesting too
Honestly I think DD is vastly overrated, and that if you’re already sitting on an upper end TM wheelbase then just use it and enjoy it. Make a decision at a later time.
I enjoyed my TS-PC more than I ever enjoyed the SC2 Pro, but that’s not to say I didn’t enjoy the SC2 Pro.
I admit, I have more used the ts pc racer too, a game with a good feeling with the SC2 is raceroom, I finally could use the DTM without clipping, and it was gorgeous, or Automobilista1/2, the Formula cars are clipping with the ts pc racer, and with the SC2 pro, it’s nice. but I remember all the joy with the ts pc racer in all the others games…
DD is for the long period…If the ts pc racer was 10nm, I could keep it, but I need 10nM, and game compatibility.
I will wait for february 2023 to choose a new wheel base.
I want to get an idea of the market share of Granite. All numbers are not totally accurate, but they still give an indication. So:
All time users in this community: 3100 (±)
Facebook:
S’cube owners group: 5’800
F’tec main group: 45’000
T’ter owners group: 30’000
Simagic official: 7’800
Instagram followers:
Simucube: 17’800
Fanatec: 187 '000
Thrustmaster : 142’000
Simagic: 11’000
Based on a public website, in 2020 the taxable income of Granite was around 1.7 millions https://yritys.io/en/cid/2677148-7
I think that the company ain’t a giant yet. After the Simucube 2 launch, the Tahko wheel, the GSI limited wheel, the pedals are the latest product.
I think it will be difficult to find a lot of buyers outside of existing Simucube owners. I don’t see much sense for other simracers to buy these pedals at the moment. For those having a Simucube, only those with a high end rig could be potential buyers.
The amount of people buying just 1 pedal will be very very small. It will look strange, you have to buy another pedal to pair it…I doubt that gonna happen.
The number of people buying 2 pedals for around 4’500 Euro, plus shipping, will also be small.
I don’t understand anything at all, where they see a market, the potential of this market, the identification of the target group, the way this is launched. Are the pedals connected to the Simucube 2, and will they be compatible with other brands?
When I compare the hype we had, all the guessing, how much we were in a fever to the actual “shock”, not many of us will buy this product. And we are, when I see at the numbers at the top, a relevant group within the customer base
I must admit that i don’t understand product positioning too and which market is it dedicated for.
However, the Simucube 2 is stil the best thing that has happened to me in my life as a simracer. I will continue to appreciate it for a long Time with or without new pedals.
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Well, as I am not taking part of the software development, it is not for me to comment about it.
Yes, well I didn’t think that people, especially our existing customers want anything bad for us, but I thought to straighten some misconceptions. Sales (in the market) is not a zero sum game in my opinion, we have also continuously grown actually in sales numbers but also in personnel. This year in total will be another/new sales record in our simulator equipment sales aswell, (not just last month). In the past 4 years, our personnel has grown about 400%, almost every year ~42% more people in on average. I am not sure will 2023 be similar though, hard to grow like that every year. So, yes, in short I can say that we are thankful of the trust the customers have towards our brand and towards our products, but we have added new people to the team in order execute our vision and to make even better job in the future.
As an obviously advanced/experienced user you probably know that the feature set of yuor existing wheelbase will not change if there is another product on the market, and furthermore, unless otherwise proven that newly introduced wheelbase likely does not exceed in performance those design aspects that we chose for Simucube 2. At least I have not yet seen a new wheelbase introduced to the market that would come close. Why they don’t come close? Because they want to sell their products with a cheaper price and to another customer segment. Perhaps one company can come quite close when they are able to start to deliver, but they don’t have the same (high efficiency) servo motors, so certain details will be different.
In anycase, I think that I understood your concern about software development.
Thanks!
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I think our reaction (at least mine) is that we are surprised and at the same time frustrated, by such a price, because we will certainly never be able to afford its pedals with much regret.
I’m glad it exists and count on those who can afford it.
I hope now that it will be possible for you to continue to improve the TD software, if an improvement is still possible.
I don’t understand all the translation, you mean that it would not be possible for TD to have an update to read the telemetry of the games?
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Those numbers especially the differences in those perhaps illustrate best the marketing activities. However it is quite small portion / fraction of users who at least in our case join the the community website and those groups, unfortunately. I am not sure that can the following assumption to be drawn, but assuming that our users are roughly all active users in those groups and forexample in the above, that Fanatec and other users also have only the active users there or similar activity in joining the group, we are about 10% of their active user size, it seems. However if the previous activity assumption between brands is vastly different, then the following I am writing is not correct, but I think that the future still is likely even more different as we at least currently mainly sell wheelbases. Our wheelbase sales are larger than only 10% compared to let’s say Fanatec, it is more likely towards 15% I think, of their overall wheelbase sales and if you look the similarly priced wheelbases from other vendors, and narrow it down even more would we be selling closer to 50% or even more in that market segment of the wheelbases currently? Maybe, hard to say exactly. My own impression is that our share of the top high end wheelbase segment is fairly large. You see, if the previously mentioned company (and other brands) sells wheels, pedals, wheelbases, shifters, rigs and other apparel, the wheelbase sales aren’t the nowehere near as big portion of the revenue as it is for us or so I suspect, but much of that revenue also come from the returning customer who buy second or third wheel or other equipment for their wheelbase (or to use the wheel with another wheelbase), and thus forexample our influence / impact of the wheelbase market is much bigger than simple company revenue numbers indicate on average. Our simulator related sales are actually highly focused actually on one product line.
The more high-end you go, the assumption of the more active the user space is (in joining also the groups), is likely correct, so it is possible that other brands for sure may have even much higher publicly non visible customer base than what we have.
I would assume that at the end of this year in the very active user space of wheelbases, Simucube owners in the active wheelbase market are roughly maybe 16% or even more (and I like to think that it is going to grow in the future).
Strange to see such a website that has correct info but also wrong info. Our sales on fy 2020 was 6,4M€ but I can say that it was a very difficult year on our production side of things.
No, we are not a giant, but small to medium sized company that is very keen on doing good job for their customers 
Yeah, if I wind back as much as to the year of 2016 when we introduced to the market our first Simcube that was based on our IONI servo drive and an industrial servo motor the reception from many was similar that they did not understand it at all, and were ridiculing it even that nobody will buy it, it is not needed thing belt driven wheel is as good as direct drive. Opinions have changed. But you know, we were creating something new in a way, we were creating a new market segment for a product that was almost completely non existent at the time. I see similarities of that and what the situation is now, we are creating something new and it is the customers and us who will create the market segment, it does not exist yet as nobody has done it like we have. If we fail, then we fail, but it is actually fairly simple; if the customers like our products they buy them, if they dont like them they won’t buy them.
Anyhow, this discussion thread is mostly about price price price, I think it is a bit dull, important factor sure, but how about the features? I noticed one pleasant to view video clip from youtube so link of that here.
Then ofcourse we have our own marketing material where certain professionals present certain portions of the features.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1641208588
Like I said, we are creating something new and we don’t expect everybody to buy it either right awat at least. It takes time, not all the people are early adopters and we for sure accept it.
Yes you’re creating something new with those pedals which is always good for us the users, hopefully this will lead to some more exciting equipment in the future. I wish you the best and good luck with it.
I wish you were as good when it comes to improving what you already have, mostly software side, not only the software itself but also what comes out, the actually FFB and the details in the FFB. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I do think the pedal development is certainly interesting, especially in how it can potentially replicate effects based on game telemetry. Even though I could not justify the expense, I do hope to see some telemetry-driven feature added to the wheel-base side.
Having been an AccuForce owner, I know the potential that telemetry offers in ffb. If SimXperience had released a version of DD using a better servo-motor, I would have purchased it on day one to have access to the telemetry-driven ffb effects.
My numbers and information ment to be neutral concerning good/bad, big/small Aso. I have tried, based on little and rather vague information, to get a rough idea of your market share. This because of it was mentioned in this topic. The figures taken from the Internet relate to taxable income, not sales.
I consider myself as a loyal customer, I was always defending Granite in controversies like online profiles, TD, wireless Aso. I am convinced that the Simucube 2 products are the best DD by far.
I agree, great ideas and great thinkers never had an easy life. It’s more likely to get burned like whitches and then, after 50 years, get a Nobel prize than beeing celebrated as a genius right away.
I just wonder who will take the risk to buy your new pedals if not we, those already have one of your products. We, which doesn’t have to be convinced you doing a great job. I can’t see anyone else, neither a Simagic/Asetek/other DD user going to buy the pedals (huger numbers). I myself have a PSR1 rig and have mounted a 8mm steal plate from BJ, which is also working with Heusinkveld products. Even I own one of the best aluminium rigs I’m not totally sure, if 12 kg of pedals aren’t too heavy. There are solutions like rumble kits for pedals, pedal settings software like Heusinkveld has. These solutions are maybe not as good as yours, but they try to deliver the same sensation. And yes: I couldn’t find a set of pedals as expensive as yours, not even close.
I can only say that it is fairly simple; if the customers like our products they buy them, if they dont like them they won’t buy them. In my understanding, eventhough I am not at the sim racing expo in Germany now, the lines to test the pedals (and wheelbase) have been contunously long and the reception has been very excited and positive by the audience.
However your logic “I don’t know anyone doing / buying something” as not very, how to say, convincing to any direction. I mean if you don’t know something it is not a proof either way. Like think of it like this " I don’t know any friend who wants to buy ticket and visit the outer space -> therefore such rockets should never be invented" Or that I don’t know anyone wanting to buy a certain sports car or clothes, therefore such car/clothes should not be manufactured. World just doesn’t work based on what a person knows, but it works within a small like minded subset of people like that, that how it is assumed to work, right?
However, I do understand that how mind boggling it may feel when one does not understand the logic. On the other hand, it is not that we know everything either, we are pioneers in this field and we are willing to take risks and invent new things. I think that the product is a success if even if only x% of our existing customers buy this within the coming year and more customers follow the year after. Just winding back the years and looking those sales, the number of customers who bought first generation Simucube is rather small nowadays, but it is not to say that we are not thankful of the support and trust we got from the early adopters back in the day, and yet there were a lot of people who thought that it was crazy product and no point in it (back in the day).