SC2 Ultimate - Worth updating from Simucube 1?


#1

Hi everyone,

I think its worth creating a seperate topic for this topic and I am sure quite some wonder whether its a big update or not.

This is exactly what I did: I had a small mige sc1 system from Simracingbay before and updated to the SC2 Ultimate now so I can report my (completely subjective) experience.

Here a pic from my old mige just as proof:

Imgur

It was with a Sparco 300 and Martin Ascher Plate.

Now my new updated rig with the SC2 Ultimate and L Plate on a Sportline Competition 300 wheel:

Imgur

Imgur

I thought long time how to describe the update and came to this:

When I started sim racing (iRacing to be specific) in 2016 with a fanatec v2I always wondered about this: is it that difficult to catch a car that looses balance?

The slightest thing went wrong and boom I lost balance no matter what I did and countersteered I ended up dead…

Then with many hours more I managed to catch here and there then I bought the Simucube 1 which was a huge improvement in feel but the balancing feeling (or rather the lack of it) stayed.

I was convinced what many write in the forums: its something that in real cars come from the “butt” feeling: the gforces and not really transferable to force feedback.

Then I had many hours in iracing and some small (slides etc) ones I could catch and from time to time a big save too but by sheer experience not really by feel!

Now I have the ultimate for 3 days in action with basically the same settings and I totally can easily catch situations where you would think in a real world you could: like going over grass and so on.

Its like magic and feels completely natural. Also it feels super smooth with stll details transported more like real steering.

I am not 100% sure what is the secret sauce also it doesnt feel like cheating because it feels like a normal car would behave (yes the DBox 4250i helps too of course).

I do think the faster processor might have to do with it reducing latency I dont know but it is an absolut game changer for me!

Now its a lot of money and the SC1 is already great but this is definately another leage in my personal subjective opinion and was 1000% worth the upgrade to me.


#2

Stef, good feedback, and I fully believe the low latency of the SC2 series has opened the 3rd eye /pineal gland of dd wheels for us.

I reported on this behaviour already during beta-testing of the SC2 FW, unfortunately a few of the members on the German VR forums really reflected quite negatively on my feedback and called it marketing/biased.

So much so that I am avoiding posting there lately, as there are to many armchair-experts that have not even tested SC2, but apparently knows exactly how it can or can’t feel. But it is good to see that my experience and feedback has been vindicated, quite a few top-end racers that have come from very high-end wheels, that made the switch to the Ultimate, had the same observation as you.

So personally, I am happy to hear also your feedback, as I have always believed my feedback to be accurate and reflecting the reality, as after all, this is what Mika and Tero have been using to determine proper wheel behaviour for both original Simucube/Ioni and now the next generation Simucube2.

Enjoy your new wheel, feel free to watch some of my latest videos, it will nicely show some crazy slides I recovered from, especially in the Mercedes GT3 on iRacing :wink:

Cheers,
Beano


#3

Side note: I just upgraded from a perfectly dialed in Fanatec v 2.5 to a SC1(one). And I must say i can catch slides now with the SC1 that was not possible with the V2.5… Belt driven seems to have a delay that DD wheels dont have,


#4

Makes me wonder how big the difference between the ultimate and the pro is.


#5

same here, wondering if I did the right choice moving from Sc1 OSW small mige to Sc2 Sport, I mean it should be better but I am waiting to see if the upgrade was worth.


#6

I have to agree with the feedback here on the Ultimate. My online friends all thought I was nuts because I already had the Big Mige. If you haven’t tried a Ultimate you cant explain it to someone. It just does everything better is the only way to explain it. And I agree 100% with StefVR on the smoothness of it and how close it feels to a real car. Catching slides is like second nature you don’t think you just react like you would in real life. Granted you cant save them all but ive definitely saved some I know I wouldn’t have with the OSW. Knowing it will only get better from here I have no regrets buying it.


#7

Second that.
Beano, didn’t you get Pro version too?
The only feedback on moving from SC1 (Lenze) to SC2 Pro was from @McErono, and not sure he was that super impressed.


#8

Yes Andrew, I will test and feedback on the Pro after I return from travels in a couple of weeks. From my quick experience with it, it is also a very good step-up from other DD wheels, incl. Podium, Bodnar and OSW.

Of course, as with every other wheel, use the new wheel for a few weeks, then step back to your old wheel and evaluate the situation then :wink:


#9

Can someone test the SC2 Ultimate with RFR-WheelTest soft and show us the diagram?
http://www.racingfr.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t48669.html


#10

Other than latency, not sure what is really useable on that diagram. Other than bragging-rights…

There is a useful window for acceleration required from a servo solution to satisfy the needs of our sims, anything more is a bit silly and not useful at all, to the contrary.

Cheers,
Beano


#11

Latency I would like to know.


#12

I can test when I get home on the weekend…but perhaps someone else can test sooner…


#13

If anyone wants to test that, please do the test with the filters off to be comparable to the other devices.


#14

Yep, agreed, otherwise results will be skewed


#15

Could you please do the rfr wheel-test with the SC2 Ultimate? For comparison, here are some results from MMOS (Beckhoff reducted so not direct driven), SC1 (small mige 10000ppr), SC2 Pro and Fanatec DD1.





#16

Wow. Such bad values for Fanatec?
Or which are good and which are bad values?


#17

this test is not accurate for anything really.


#18

If I understand correctly, these tests are trying to show raw caracteristics of motors/electronics ; that is why they are done without any filters. That’s not exactly how you are supposed to use these wheels in real case scenario even if good performance is related to good FFB. All these wheels might work way below their full potential for the best ingame simulation value. This tests cannot evaluate the benefits of the software.

The Fanatec show a very strong acceleration, but seems behind the competition with latency. The curb present some overshooting, maybe it is partly due to the shape of the steering wheel attached (F1 2018LE)?

@Mika, could you please develop why it is bad and what would be a good test?


#19

there are computer-specific variance in usb latency, also depends on what other usb devices are connected. Also, the friction of the overall system affects the initial acceleration somewhat, making variances especially to the latency measurement.

Also the rim being used has an effect, although that is smaller effect with DD wheels.


#20

Ok for the usb part, but could you please tell me what is described in the “overalll system”?

Aren’t Direct Driven wheels supposed to have negligeable friction? I am wondering about the actual influence of the friction here because the belt driven Beckhoff with VSD+STM32+MMos (non-integrated) shows a latency of 2.09ms (so less than SC1 and SC2Pro) and because the Podium DD1 shows as much latency than a belt-driven CSW V2.5 (around 20ms).

In the end, what type of test should be representative/fair? The same test with the various motors on the very same PC, without any other USB devices than mouse and keyboard and without any steering wheel attached? Or a way to measure latency at different points and not only at the start of command until the initial acceleration?