SC2 and pain in wrist

[1se7en]

Hey Everyone,
(slightly long post, thanks for sticking through it if you do)
Coming from a G29 to the SC2 has been amazing for one. What I really was surprised about was the amount of strength difference between the 2.

I am running a lowish FFB with it and mostly race iRacing with the skippy so not a very intense car. This is my settings currently.

TrueDrive:
Bumpstop: 900
Strength 40% (10nm)
Recon 5:
Bandwidth: unlimited
Damping: 10%
Friction: 5%
Inertia: 3%
SFR: 25%
Slew: off
Latency: 8%

Direct Input:
Damping: 15%
Friction: 15%
(rest default)

Iracing:
Strength: 60
NM: 30
Damp: 0
min force: 0

With this I dont get any oscillations or anything but after a race in the skippy my arms are tired for sure haha. This was quite surprising for me and something I am still trying to get used to.

So last night I did an F3 race with the same settings, car still seemed really powerful, so I turned the in game strength to 70 which helped a little but by about lap 10 of the 30 lap race at Mosport my arms were pretty much dead. By the end of the 30 laps my wrists were in quite a bit of pain. The pain was not crazy but enough to say I cant do another race for atleast an hour.

This made me wonder about my seating position, I have a Formula Carbon rim attached to the wheel, so i dont know if that maybe causes a different feeling in my wrists compared to my g29. My seating position is about top of the wheel at chin height, arms at about 90degrees when holding it. Seating position seems ok.

Is wrist pain something some of you went through when getting used to the DD wheel? Should I turn the FFB down further? Would turning it down still give me the same kind of fidelity because I love how much I can feel right now.

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers
CR

[Raimond]

I also experienced wrist pain in the first few days. Force settings were lowish so that wasn’t the problem. I figured it was my seating position combined with the angle in which the SC2 is mounted. I played around a bit with that and now it’s good.

Although in longer sessions, after an hour or so of intensive racing I still get a bit of a sore left lower arm/hand. It seems I’m using my left arm and hand much more than my right while racing, even with paddle shifting. I’m left-handed btw.

[Mika]

Yeah, mounting angle of the wheel compared to your seating position is important. For the steering wheel face, an angle of 12 degrees from vertical is something I came used to.

[Paolo81]

Hi, I went from a CSW V1 to the SC2 PRO initially the strength was 100% but I had to lower it to 81% because the wrists hurt. the driving position is certainly very important in my opinion, I followed this scheme for my workstation!!

[Maris]

Hi!
If someone is interested, there was a bit of the text for this image at Skoda Motorsports page (https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/drive-like-pro-sitting-like-racing-driver/)
The only confusing part for me was 45 degrees in the elbow - probably was meant to have 45 from vertical as otherwise it would be too cramped.

[Paolo81]

I find it very good to have 45 degrees for the elbow, I will be able to have the steering wheel close is a more ergonomic position.

[Spinelli]

I see what you’re saying, 1se7en.

The whole wrist pain thing with DD wheels is still a bit of a mystery to me. Not only do I often get high wrist pain but I also get a mysterious lack of all other pains (chest, forearm, tricep, bicep, etc.) when in real-life I experience the complete opposite.

I’ve raced a decent variety of cars in real life - some having weaker “FFB” than my DD wheels’ settings, some more powerful. Even the weaker real-life cars caused me tons of muscle soreness, while the stronger real-life cars still caused me no wrist pain.

My theory is this. It’s not just about raw numbers of Nm. It’s about general behaviour/actions/reactions. I know most games use different physics engines and FFB from one-another but I experience this phenomenon in every game hence I don’t think it has to do with different games’ engines. Therefore, the only things I can find that A) are the same in every game and B) are different from real-life FFB are the following: 1) real-life FFB is torque-based, not speed/position based, 2) real-life FFB is a passive/reactive system, not an active system.

Generally speaking, I can often tell the games’ FFB is actively being controlled to move and output power. Sometimes it’s so obvious that it feels like there’s an invisible person next to me with his hand on the wheel moving it himself. It’s honestly quite different than a real-life system which is simply a passive/reactive system with no brain/function telling the FFB what to do.

Having said all that, I have seen a bit of an improvement going from a large mige SC1 to an SC2 Pro. Is that because of the technology itself in the SC2 (higher encoder resolution, faster processing power, better and different filters and filter behaviour) or simply due to the different motor (perhaps the Large mige’s natural characteristics due to it’s design are more “brutal” and therefore worse at replicating steering than the ones in the SC2?)?? Or maybe a bit if both? I don’t know but it seems a little better with the SC2 Pro.

P.S. I haven’t played with this setting yet so this is still only based theoretically but try limiting the slew-rate anywhere from a little less to even all the way to 1.0. The more you limit the slew-rate (lower #), the less damping (and possibly other filters) you’ll probably need so make sure you lower those too. From using an Ionicube OSW and an SC1 for around 3 years, I always thought something was needed that worked exactly like the slew-rate works rather than just pumping on more and more damping and/or friction. When Granity released the Slew-Rate filter, I felt like they read my mind the last 3 years.

[1se7en]

Thank you everyone for the responses, its much appreciated.

This is currently the setup of my rig.

does that look roughly right? should I angle the wheel a bit more, bring it closer? when I extend my arm the forearm sits on the top. Its hard to take a picture in the small space I have. so the angle is a little off. the top of the wheel rim is in line with the height of my chin. The seat leans back I would say probably 10degrees which is hard to see in this pic.

[Boska]

Here is a good seating position picture depending on car and style.

[Boska]

Looks alright, only thing could be that if you can sit lower and tilt down the SC2 base (my mouth is almost same hight as the top of the GT-rim) and maybe a little closer to rim, 50-75mm ish…but dont know if this is possible on your rig. I am in VR so no screens and therefore more flexible regarding the position i want to have.

In VR its also very easy to see if your seat/rim is on the right spot. Ferrari GT3/GTE and BMW M8 is spot on for me wheres Porsche RSR is not so correct.

[Spinelli]

From the looks of the picture, the wheel seems to be too angled away from you (bottom of wheel closer to you than top of the wheel). I would try straitening the wheel out more (less angle).

I’d also try to raise it. I have a Simlabs P1 too, you should have a decent amount of space available to raise it.

P.S. The “sportscar” diagram in that pic above is pretty funny. No sportscar is that straight/low unless when they say “sportscar” they really mean a LaFerrari, lol.

[Boska]

But again, this is very individual and i guess you need to try different things until it feels good for you. Even IRL drivers has there own position and does not always suit another driver in same car.

For me it felt much better when i got a 50mm extension on the rim (got closer to the rim).

[Boska]

Picture of an Aston Martin Vantage GT3, his nose is at the top of the rim also sightly less angle on the arms then you. So basically you “should” sit lower and closer.

[1se7en]

Lets see if I can adapt the chair to be a little lower, its a little difficult with the rig, but maybe I can make a plan with the seat brackets to go a little lower. I think I tried and it didnt allow it with the bolts underneath but maybe I can try figure something out and slightly raise the wheel deck. There is a little space on the wheel deck to raise it.

I would love to go VR, but my pc is too old. spent money on the other bits that can run on it, maybe next year after some more savings that will be my next upgrade

[1se7en]

will play around tonight with this and see what I can do with it. thanks for the feedback

[Spinelli]

Ya Boska, I agree, I also think 1se7en should possibly have the wheel closer but, perhaps more importantly than closer, higher.

1se7en, try angling the wheel’s face straighter towards you, that will require you to have a bit more bend on your wrists which should put less stress on them as you turn the wheel.

[phillip.vanrensburg]

Seat is a fair bit too high, maybe 10-15cm, plus, you need to get quite a bit closer to your wheel, perhaps another 10cm there too.

Cheers,
Beano

[Alfye20]

Rise up all your dashboard if you are allright with your back&leghs right now.
If you go down with your seat, you must change pedals too.

[raymondw]

I’ve found this one quite informative.

[Jos]

I used this document as a guide and never had problems: Driver Position