Idea for software improvement

Non-linear dependence of pedal travel on the foot force.

I’m confused why this is not implemented in Active Pedal.

Yes, there is a non-linear % on foot force dependence, but it is not the same. All elastomeric pedals have non-linear %/force dependence, Heusinkveld for example. But in a real car, than harder you push, the less pedal travel you have. Just to illustrate an idea: at the first 10 kg the pedal travel is long (and % growing slow), at the last 30 kg there is no travel at all (but % growing strongly).

Elastomeric pedal trying to imitate this with a set of elastomers with different stiffness in one set (or metal spring + hard elastomer and so on), but it’s not the same. It not give a real feeling of the pedal.

I was sure that Active Pedal would implement this as technology makes it possible. And that would be main advantage over elastomers. I was very surprised that the Active Pedal has only a trevel length and a % force curve, but no pedal travel curve.

Just as an idea. If you implemented that, the pedals would be much cooler.

P.S. Sorry for my English.

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I think the force curve editor enables to do exactly this, and more. There are even presets to get a non-linear curve with one click. Or am I missing something?

Yeah, I was going to reply the same. Otherwise I am totally missing what the OP is saying, it might be language barrier.

But yes, for certain cars, have been using that same type effect to get longer travel at the start of the pedal travel, and then very sharp uptick in required pedal-effort for very short travel. These were already existing pre-beta when I visited 2nd time to your office 1 year ago, so was one of the first features.

But maybe OP means something else, but honestly, cannot seem to think what is missing in basic operations from the AP.

Force curve not the same… I will try to explain that I mean…

We have 3 variables, not 2. 1) % of braking force in sim (0-100%) 2) foot force which we applied on pedal (0-120kg) 3) travel of pedal (0-5 centimeters).

Try to abstracting from the % in the simulator… Than more force we apply, the more the pedal moves. Yes, in sim it may be less % (what the force curve gives), but it give feeling of “going away” pedal (something like what Emergency brake assist doing on real car). In real race car it should be the opposite, pedal should get tougher (and travel will be shorter) as you increase applied foot force.

With force curve, if you did “exponential” curve, yes, you get less travel of pedal with increasing % in sim at the end of travel, but increasing % in sim will be too fast compared on increasing foot force. In real cars it opposite - you should press stronger to add stopping power of brakes at the end.

And if you did “logarithmic” curve, yes, you get proper (as in real live) increasing of % in sim depending of foot force, but pedal travel will increase together with increasing of foot force, and in real live it opposite - at the and pedal travel will shother with increasing foot force.

Any pedals have force curve, heusinkveld for example… It just not works… They try to solve problem by adding springs with different stiffness. First - the metal thin spring, with long travel and small foot force and small stopping power (%) in sim. And then it completely folds up and stiff elastomer going into action - very short travel with a lof ot foot force and stopping power. But it not works proper too - If the difference in stiffness of is very large (like spring+elastomer in heusinkveld), the transition is very stippled, not realistic. And if the difference is small (soft+hard elastomers), then both elastomers are still working simultaneously and don’t give the realistic feeling too due to elastomers in the kit are very limited in stiffness. Maybe if you could get a set of 4 ten-millimeters elastomers with very different stiffness, it would work, I don’t know… but you are limited to a maximum of two if you want a short enough pedal travel… But Active Pedals don’t have such limitation at all due to construction.

So, what you need - you need a linear “% in sim”/foot force curve, and you need logarithmic “foot force”(x-axis)/“travel of pedal”(y-axis) curve.

Yeah, mapping of the position to the reported position to PC (even if the force curve is something other than linear) is implemented for ActivePedal. By default, it is linear. If you select Curve Mapping, then the software shows an input mapping curve that can be adjusted separately from the force curve, which is what you do with all the passive pedal softwares.

So you need to switch brake pedal into position input mode with 2cm travel and 120kg max force, and configure the curve?

No, you just need to enable the curve mode for input mapping, and then you can make a non-linear force vs. value reported to PC curve.

But I need to linear force vs. value reported to PC. :slight_smile:
I need not linear force vs. pedal travel. :slight_smile:

Than more force I add, the less travel is added… At the end (around 100kg), I keep increasing the force, but the pedal stays still. But value reported to PC increasing with foot force.

Well you can do that when you make a force vs. travel curve very exponential, that is possible with the travel-force curve editor with just a few clicks.

Well, will it work precisely enough like a load sensor… with such short travel… From human point of view - much easy to operate foot force, not travel (why loadcell pedals exists).

No travel - no value to PC…

Will be great if driver continue to operate foot force, not travel, but travel will be not linear.

For example, I had race car without road vacuum servo (brake booster), it has about 10cm of pedal travel and need about 100kg foot force to block the wheels… But first 2cm was complitley free, next 7cm you can travel with only 10kg of foot force and it gives only 5% of stopping power, and with last 1sm you operate 95% (from 5% to 100%) of stopping power and 10…100kg foot force), moreover with last 50% of stopping power you operate by foot force only, the pedal not moves at all…

Obviously this is not possible to do such behavior with Active Pedals right now… But technologically it is possible I think.

You can max out AP force sensor, then play with upper deadzone to reach your desired 100% force ingame

Yep, this is basically what OP is asking, right? It is possible. Thanks @lassih for the screenshot.

And it works exactly as load sensor due to muscle memory? From precision point of view… When in 2mm travel you have 95% of scale…

Yes, it does work that way.