For us, it would be fantastic to understand what is the feeling and physical reaction from setting the MPP like you have set it. Then we could determine the best way and parameter range to achieve such effect or feeling. As it is, the MPP is mainly there to limit power consumption from the power supply, and the feeling one can achieve by setting that, might change from user to user - for example, from motor to motor.
We need to be careful when adding such parameters, and we also must be able to physically describe what happens, so that we can write minimal documentation and to provide support for customers.
So this is bad and should be avoided? Right? But this phenomena happens with all the other settings other than the ones you have found as in below?
MCC: 6 A
MMC: 6,1 A
MPP: 60 Watt
How would you describe the feel, perhaps with some other words than perfect (because it is not very descriptive)? What feeling exactly in the feedback makes the feel perfect with these settings? If you set MPP to 60, then for sure the steering wheel has constant max power, but weakening torque (to the commanded torque direction) as a function rotational speed, no matter what the sim commands. This is because shaft output power is a function of rotational speed and torque and if speed increases, torque must decrease.
If you set the MPP to 60, then the peak current is limited to 3,85 A (rms), that comes from sqrt(60/(1,5*2,7)). Peak of sine would be 5,44 A in stall condition.
As I understand it, you desire to have constant power from the shaft and you get that if you limit the power with MPP as you have done, but which now seems to be impossible to achieve?
Indeed it´s very difficult to discribe the feeling. Like real, discribes it as best. Very well details all over the whole rotation, not to less, not too much, feedback from street as well as from grip and even rear axle.
In practice MCC, MMC and MPP are influencing each other massivly. MPP on 60 Watt isn´t nearly the same as 3,85 A peak current with unlimited MPP at the same time. That´s the problem. Only with all three sliders at
exactly the values above it feele like it feels.
Your best way to investigate dear Tommy… take a fast plane to Berlin an check out my sim. Cool beers included…
Surely, German beer or two is always nice to drink
Would you say that some high frequency feedback, is not so strong / less apparent to your hands when the MPP is set to 60? Would you say that there are some other differences in force feedback feel than the previous description?
The reason why we want very specific feedback, is because we actually need to define even something that what is “real” and do that very exactly before that something that is defined as “real” can be simulated with hardware.
One thing to consider also, is that the MPP parameter is not meant to alter feedback in the FFB system, you are just experiencing a side effect of it. This means that any alteration of that implementation in the servo drive firmware algorithms would change feedback feel, which is exactly what we do not want to do. That is why we need to define the wanted effect/effects/feel better before implementing it to SimuCUBE system officially.
My setup ist totally straight. No effects nowhere, no filters nowhere ( mmos general filter is at 1 ) and low pass filter TWB in Granity is set below 480. No high frequencies are reaching the wheel.
I think so too…, what I´m looking for is the sideeffekt of the MPP, and yes, I´m using the MPP like a medical off label therapy. Before going this way, I´d played around with LUT´s. Brrr… horrible…
Meanwhile I´m confident, that the generally thinking error is, that a DD wheel must be purely linear while using it as power steering wheel. I´m with you, that ( too ) many sliders are not the best way and many users are overwhelmed.
As a dev ( thanks to god I´m not ) I would implement a curve editor like a gradiation trim in Photoshop.
THIS is, what I´m true dreaming about and THIS ensure, that all edges of the table can hold the place without relenting the persons position around it. Basically straight motormanagement, linear and tecnically clear, but with the option to fit it for all situations.
Since this comes reality, I´m using my unconventionally methods.
The end justifies the means. In this sense… stay cool…
So is it really not that important to keep MCC lower than MMC anymore?
I have been shipping controls set MMC 12.86 MCC 12 for a while now.
Most people run the Simucube slider at 50 to 100% range. So that means the MCC is always higher than the MMC. Do we need to start doing something different?
SimuCUBE firmware keeps track of the MMC parameter, and resets it to the saved value before saving any settings and also before user goes to Granity mode. So the actual adjustment behind the scenes is invisible to users.
For IONI drive to initialize correctly, there should be some difference between MMC and MCC, and MCC must be the lower one of them.
Since the average user does not go into Granity to adjust settings anymore, would it not be a good idea for the Simucube software to scale both MMC and MCC via the slider?
I never really thought about this situation until this thread was started.
Well, it is not required so thats why it is not being done. MCC parameter is mainly meant to keep hard-running factory machinery temperatures at a certain level but to allow higher peak torques via MMC.
Yes, the parameters in the user-selectable “Default profile” are set to the drive only after drive has initialized.
“This means that any alteration of that implementation in the servo drive firmware algorithms would change feedback feel, which is exactly what we do not want to do.”
Simucube will be a professional ffb SYSTEM for simracers, not a pure technical motor control part. A system must be designed to satisfy users, not to satisfy the devs. "We don´t want to change the feedback feel in firmware? OK, but than there must be an additional part in or beside the firmware, which allows useres to set up the system as their own visions.
Non professional users who don´t want this, are buying Logies, Thrusties or Fanas. But this is not your target group. If a professional software do not offer more options than a one click solution, there is no need to use.
Eddy, we do now acknowledge the setting you would like to change, and in principal, we know how it changes the feel of the wheel. However, we will have describe it with some other means than a random servo drive power consumption parameter.
Target group will want to know what it does and how exactly it affects the feel. We absolutely do not want people guessing and trying random things on forums, which will confuse a lot of users and also make it seem that the system is difficult to use or hard to set up - which it is not, and it will only be easier in the future. Random setting discussions and second guessing on forums will only give more sales to our competitors. For the SImuCUBE system to be relevant in the market, we want to make it very easy to use, give good documentation, and also keep all required advanced settings accessible for advanced users like you to tinker with. Adding a parameter to the UI is not just a simple job, we must provide documentation and default settings too.
If we enabled MPP adjustment right now, there would be no documentation and it would only confuse users. Also, how would we know or limit the MPP value as some of our retailers and also some DIY builders have set it to a particular point because of power supply reasons.This would require some serious thought on how to implement it - maybe similar way to the MMC adjustment would work, but perhaps not. Not a simple one-day job to add it.
Mika, “Do not change a running system” is my motto. For me every thing ist ok so far. My system works well with Granity and mmos. I was only a little bit inquisitively about the beta an thought it was a good idea, to make your life a litte easier with constructive infos. Good luck with Podium, I´m out here…
Your suggestion and feedback has been constructive and very much appreciated.
We hope you understand why we don’t want to have all servo drive engineering parameters visible. We want SimuCUBE to be usable for every sim racer with advanced, meaningful and well explaiend configuration options, without having to know about servo drives, servo motors and their configuration parameters.
Are you still using small Mige?
What power supply?
Looking at your setting your MCC ends up being 4amps + higher than MMC when running slider at 55%. This goes against our previous thinking of where to set the MCC. Many people are running in a similar situation, so I guess it as not as much of an issue as we thought before?
I guess this is a Tero question, how much higher or lower can the MCC be than the MMC without causing problems? And what problems should we expect having the MCC this much higher or lower than the MMC?
